RobW said:

do you really expect plugs to last more than 2 years??
fluids more than 2 years??

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Platinum tipped spark plugs are normally good for at least 50k miles, and the best quality antifreeze & brake fluids are supposedly OK for 4 years. My understanding is that many of today's cars do not call for routine replacement of these components at the second service.

That said, I actually give my own cars rather more maintenance than the manufacturer recommends, as I'm interested in longevity, not just getting the thing through the warranty period without major incident. So I'll most likely change my brake fluid annually - the materials are relatively cheap and my time is my own now.

The economics are very different when labour is factored in at franchised dealer prices, and my point is that if FIAT chose to use better quality components and
fluids, the subsequent running cost of the cars would likely be significantly less.

But that way the cars would be more expensive when new, and the dealers wouldn't make so much money out of the servicing, so I can understand FIAT's commercial policy.

I just don't happen to agree with it.

jrkitching said:

Platinum tipped spark plugs are normally good for at least 50k miles, and the best quality antifreeze & brake fluids are supposedly OK for 4 years. My understanding is that many of today's cars do not call for routine replacement of these components at the second service.

That said, I actually give my own cars rather more maintenance than the manufacturer recommends, as I'm interested in longevity, not just getting the thing through the warranty period without major incident. So I'll most likely change my brake fluid annually - the materials are relatively cheap and my time is my own now.

The economics are very different when labour is factored in at franchised dealer prices, and my point is that if FIAT chose to use better quality components and
fluids, the subsequent running cost of the cars would likely be significantly less.
But that way the cars would be more expensive when new, and the dealers wouldn't make so much money out of the servicing, so I can understand FIAT's commercial policy.

I just don't happen to agree with it.

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but the purchase price higher

If you want a car with unreliable components try a Mercedes. My friends, who two months ago spent £2500 on a 70,000 service, now have to fork out another £600 because some sensors have failed, again. I won't bother to list all the other failed components, it would take too long, and I'll only mention in passing the three rust-induced resprays - for a car treated like a baby from new!

By comparison a Fiat - any Fiat - is a paragon of design and build integrity.

Ulpian said:

If you want a car with unreliable components try a Mercedes. My friends, who two months ago spent £2500 on a 70,000 service, now have to fork out another £600 because some sensors have failed, again. I won't bother to list all the other failed components, it would take too long, and I'll only mention in passing the three rust-induced resprays - for a car treated like a baby from new!

By comparison a Fiat - any Fiat - is a paragon of design and build integrity.

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a friend of mine had a E Class - it was so rubbish and flaky that MB were forced to buy it back

the list of faults:

sat nav failed from new
2 turbos
aircon
2 paint/rust repairs

his previous car was an Alfa Sportwagon and had been totally reliable apart from a few minor selespeed gremlins

My friends have an E Class too. Utterly crap, and not even a special ride when it is working.

Ulpian said:

My friends have an E Class too. Utterly crap, and not even a special ride when it is working.

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it's a workhorse aka Stuttgart Taxi, nothing special at all...

i ran one for a few months as a chauffeur car, also tested a Lexus GS450h at the same time, twice the car for similar money!!!

Couldn't agree more with Rob & Co. Cars require maintenance. Simple as that. Some people take the view that if it aint broke then why should they spend money on it. These same people are the same people who are going to run their tyres till the MOT station says they need to be replaced, till the pads are down to the metal backing etc etc.

It's the same attitude that the people who don't understand winter tyres had. What me worry? My tyres get me to work and back just fine so why do I need another set of tyres and rims? The point is that the better you maintain your car the better it's going to last and the more suitable your tyres are the more safe you and little sprog in the back will be.

Brake fluid and coolant should be replaced every couple of years no matter how good or bad quality it is. Water gets into the brake fluid and the additives in coolant degrade over time. This is not to say you're going to die if you leave the same fluid in there for 5 years but it's better for you and your car to have the fluids replaced as per the manufacturers specifications.

jrkitching said:

brake fluids are supposedly OK for 4 years. My understanding is that many of today's cars do not call for routine replacement of these components at the second service

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Your understanding is wrong, there was recent talk in the industry of making it law to change brake fluid every year.

T14086 said:

Your understanding is wrong, there was recent talk in the industry of making it law to change brake fluid every year.

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Money grabbing SOB's!!!! Trying to force us to replace something which gradually degrades over time and makes our brakes less effective! Shame on them! Next they'll be wanting me to repace my tyres because there are sparks flying from them!

Whilst most people on this forum seem to care, and take good care of their car .. you have to remember, to most people, a car is a black box device .. it should just work, and if it doesn't - it is taken to a garage

It comes down to knowledge and desire, if you want to know, or know due to job etc .. you will spend the extra time and money to exceed the care requirements - but if someone only follows minimum req: e.g. check tyres, fluids, etc as per service book every few weeks - it is not a negative reflection on them.

Not everyone has the time or inclination to research everything about how their cars work. just like everone that uses a computer is not a expert in components

We should give ppl a break - and explain the benefits of why they should do something e.g. replace brake fluid every 1/2 years rathr than critise those who dont know why

YouKnowWho said:

Whilst most people on this forum seem to care, and take good care of their car .. you have to remember, to most people, a car is a black box device .. it should just work, and if it doesn't - it is taken to a garage

It comes down to knowledge and desire, if you want to know, or know due to job etc .. you will spend the extra time and money to exceed the care requirements - but if someone only follows minimum req: e.g. check tyres, fluids, etc as per service book every few weeks - it is not a negative reflection on them.

Not everyone has the time or inclination to research everything about how their cars work. just like everone that uses a computer is not a expert in components

We should give ppl a break - and explain the benefits of why they should do something e.g. replace brake fluid every 1/2 years rathr than critise those who dont know why

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Of course. But sometimes you need to let people know how silly their attitudes are. A car isn't a TV, a poorly maintained car can increase the likelihood of you having to shell out extra cash or being involved in an accident.

There seems to this idea that manufacturers set these servicing intervals purely with the view of grabbing your money and stuffing in their pockets for beer and prostitutes. Whilst there are probably some bits of the service schedule which have been shortened so as to increase the long term life of cars and therefore better the image of the manufacturer in the long term, things relating to safety like replacing brake fluid more regularly only serve to keep YOU (i mean people in general, not you, youknowho!) the driver safer. More fool you if you feel the need to question why when it's going to keep your just that bit safer.

306maxi said:

But sometimes you need to let people know how silly their attitudes are..

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Seems a bit pointless on a car forum where 90% of people are well aware. To play devils advocate why bother forking out on more regular fluid changes, winter tyres/better branded tyres/ yearly pollen filters when many people only keep a new car for a couple of years. I am not saying it's something I do but I can see the point because even at re-sale most people don't really scrutinise the service history.

YouKnowWho said:

to most people, a car is a black box device .. it should just work, and if it doesn't - it is taken to a garage


Not everyone has the time or inclination to research everything about how their cars work. just like everone that uses a computer is not a expert in components

We should give ppl a break - and explain the benefits of why they should do something e.g. replace brake fluid every 1/2 years rathr than critise those who dont know why

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Yes you are right however how many owners have ever read the manual even the basic maintence section? Basic maintence checks are part of the driving test and info is freely and quickly available via the internet. Ignorence is no excuse especially the person the other day whose car I had to top up with 2.2 litres of oil in a car (panda) which only holds 2.9 litres.

No one has to be a expert or nerd but a basic (often commonsense) understanding of the second most expensive purchase in your life isn't too much to ask.