i feel sorry for anyone that owns a twingo rs if the only consolation they have each time they step into their garish, ugly, nasty little car is convincing themselves it handles better than the abarth 500.

if it's really about getting a car that's better value for money, then for gods sakes get something reliable and half decent - go the jap route and grab a suzuki swift sport.

i would rather have a stroke than be seen driving around in the postman pat twingo, however allegedly good the 'handling' is. i've heard that a unicycle handles well too.

sikersh said:

I agree with the Clio My post was about the Twingo.



Why does nearly every thread end up with people saying "so and so is wrong with Abarth" or "so and so is better than the Abarth" Have any of you actually properly driven the Abarth to make such a judgement?

If we're talking of performance then the Abarth wipes the floor with it, even around a track

Anyway, If you love the (cheaper) Twingo then why on earth did you folk out thousands on a 500?

Si

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Because the Abarth isn't perfect as the Abarth owners would like to believe it is. No car is perfect and I missed the sign on the door of the forum which said this was a 500 sycophant forum where we forgot that out in the real world there are some cars which will be better in some ways than the 500.

I bought the 500 because I liked the 500 and the Panda and my wife said no to the Twingo based on looks and the same for the Panda. I never said overall the Twingo is a better car or anything, just that it HANDLES better. I've not driven either but I'll take the word of well known motoring journalists over someone who owns either car.

306maxi said:

Because the Abarth isn't perfect as the Abarth owners would like to believe it is. No car is perfect and I missed the sign on the door of the forum which said this was a 500 sycophant forum where we forgot that out in the real world there are some cars which will be better in some ways than the 500.

I bought the 500 because I liked the 500 and the Panda and my wife said no to the Twingo based on looks and the same for the Panda. I never said overall the Twingo is a better car or anything, just that it HANDLES better. I've not driven either but I'll take the word of well known motoring journalists over someone who owns either car.

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Fair play It prob does handle better, but as a complete package the Abarth (IMO) is worth the extra cash. Just does my head in people quote things they have read or seen on TV without any real-life feedback.

suzisue said:

i feel sorry for anyone that owns a twingo rs if the only consolation they have each time they step into their garish, ugly, nasty little car is convincing themselves it handles better than the abarth 500.

if it's really about getting a car that's better value for money, then for gods sakes get something reliable and half decent - go the jap route and grab a suzuki swift sport.

i would rather have a stroke than be seen driving around in the postman pat twingo, however allegedly good the 'handling' is. i've heard that a unicycle handles well too.

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WTF? When buying a hot hatch handling is paramount. Sure the Twingo's interior isn't going to ever sit in an art gallery but it's functional and does the job. The Twingo handles better and that's a big part of what a hot hatch is meant to be.

sikersh said:

Fair play It prob does handle better, but as a complete package the Abarth (IMO) is worth the extra cash. Just does my head in people quote things they have read or seen on TV without any real-life feedback.

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I know what you mean Like when someone quotes a Top Gear laptime as gospel when everyone who has a brain knows they fudge the times majorly and if you don't believe me compare the time the other week for the Stratos with the times for the Numbnut in a reasonably price car. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything and I don't think that my perfectly good 500 outside is ruined by putting some Scorpion badges on it and a bigger engine and turbo, all I'm trying to do is make people see things without the rose tinted glasses. The Abarth is a great car and for the money it's still pretty good value and if economy and cheap motoring weren't foremost in my mind when looking for a new car I might have ended up with one too.

With cup chassis I'd have no problem accepting that a twingo outhandles the 500/Abarth 500.

That said, I've not driven it yet but I'm basing that on other renaultsport beasts I've sampled.

From an eye candy perspective I think the 500 has it. Handling-wise I'm not sure the 500 is as refined. I'd be curious to see what difference a decent coil over kit and proper geometry config on the 500 could do it enhance it.

The twingo is an acquired taste but then it's french. You have only to glance at the history of french cars to appreciate their....individual styling.

Each to his own really.

Maxi, why do you always stick up for the Twinngo so much? All you have on it is that it handles slightly better? Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but handling only plays a role when driving on track or at excessive speeds, and as you get personal and gob off at anybody that dares mention having a bit of fun in their cars, i can only assume you don't drive that fast anyway.

So you're sticking up for a similar car, that doesn't look as nice on the outside, looks terrible on the inside (look at the flipping radio dude!) isn't as quick or as economical as the Abarth, has a stupidly hard ride, but has "slightly" better handling when driven quick which you don't?

Confusing...

EDIT: Page 1 - Abarth 500 price increase
Page 2 - Renault Twingo
Page 3 - Any guessers? Winter tyres anyone?

draigflag87 said:

maxi, why do you always stick up for the twinngo so much? All you have on it is that it handles slightly better? Now forgive me if i'm wrong, but handling only plays a role when driving on track or at excessive speeds, and as you get personal and gob off at anybody that dares mention having a bit of fun in their cars, i can only assume you don't drive that fast anyway.

So you're sticking up for a similar car, that doesn't look as nice on the outside, looks terrible on the inside (look at the flipping radio dude!) isn't as quick or as economical as the abarth, has a stupidly hard ride, but has "slightly" better handling when driven quick which you don't?

Confusing...

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wtf?

jnoiles said:

With cup chassis I'd have no problem accepting that a twingo outhandles the 500/Abarth 500.

That said, I've not driven it yet but I'm basing that on other renaultsport beasts I've sampled.

From an eye candy perspective I think the 500 has it. Handling-wise I'm not sure the 500 is as refined. I'd be curious to see what difference a decent coil over kit and proper geometry config on the 500 could do it enhance it.

The twingo is an acquired taste but then it's french. You have only to glance at the history of french cars to appreciate their....individual styling.

Each to his own really.

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Well we live in the UK so it's not uncommon for people to have this irrational hatred of French cars. Some people just don't get French cars for some reason as well which is strange considering how well thought of cars like the 205 GTi, 106 GTi/Rallye, 306 GTi-6/Rallye, Clio Williams and Clio RS's are in the UK.

I reckon with a decent set of coilovers the Abarth would easily have the Twingo licked and I certainly won't disagree that the interior of the 500 is miles better than the Twingo but that's not everything when it comes to car ownership. Different people have different priorities and some people rate handling above looks or interior quality above handling etc etc so different cars are suited to different people. I know some people who simply think the 500 interior is too girly or that it puts form above function (I very much disagree with that one!!!!) and some people just simply don't like the looks.

I just get annoyed when I see a perfectly good car getting slagged off for the wrong reasons.

I love renaultsports and I like the look of the new twingo on the outside, but it is not very nice on the inside. The twingo with the cup suspension pack handles a lot better than the 500, but the 1.6 just isn't powerful enough to make it an adequate competitor - 0-60 in 8.6 seconds... Yes I could have saved a few (well thousand) pounds on a twingo, but i even feel the abarth is too slow, so would have been extremely annoyed with the twingo after a short time.

some people seem a little too argumentative about things on here. People are different and like different things, especially when it comes down to cars, if not we would all just have the same car (I'm thinking a ford focus!) For many people it is their budget that influences their choice, others it is the styling, performance, reliability, practicality, safety, or specifications that help to influence their decision.

In my opinion both the twingo and 500 are good looking cars, the 500 slightly better because of its retro charm. The twingo is cheaper, but at the same time feels cheaper and has less equipment as standard - by the time you've specced it up, its not so cheap.

Conclusion - People can do what they like, others may not agree but we don't control each other hence why we make different decisions (again the Focus!!) People on here are going to be slightly bias to the 500 or A500 because most of us have them, and don't want anyone 'dissing' our choice of car.

Oh, and back to the original question about the price increase, before the usualy suspects started arguing, there was a standard price increase because of the value of the euro against the pound (apparently...) of approximately £400 on a standard 1.2 Lounge (as my sister just brought one the other day and that was the excuse given by the salesman).

I would therefore say that the price you've seen is probably before the VAT rise which will go up on the 1st January - we'll find out soon either way.

The value of the Pound against the Euro has been pretty stable for some time now, i.e. crap, but maybe Fiat need to claw back some of the subsides they had to hand out on the scrappage deal.

I like both the Twingo and 500 Abarth, and arguing over which is better is kind of pointless. As for magazine reviews, generally only one persons view. For example Autocar gave the Mito multiair a great review in one issue and in a later one called it the disappointment of the year, but then again they really only like German or Ford stuff.

Lloyd71 said:

Jesus....you could get a bloody nice Twingo Renaultsport for that!

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I would rather have the abarth any day so

Back on topic...

GFV
Guaranteed Future Value.
Am I right is saying the A500 is a lot better than a twingo sport??
and if new ones have gone up does that mean mine will be worth a bit more now.:yum:

I think many folk are missing the point of Renaultsport's Twingo as I don't believe for a second Renault even consider the 500 to be a natural competitor.

The Twingosport in Cup form is little over £10K and has an insurance group of 8. Even a "full fat" model with cup pack added is still only £12K or so, about same price as a 1,4 16V 500 and lets face it, it's not even at the races.

A 500 Abarth is over £14K and is insurance group 13, add SS kit and its upto group 14 and nearly £17K, and that's before adding any extras, before you know it you could be looking at a £20K car, that's expensive in anyone's books, in fact 2X Twingosports. It is therefore considerably more expensive to not only purchase, but to insure. And that is paramount to any young driver, at least £4k in your pocket and maybe add another £500 for insurance makes it a totally different proposition. 2mpg is nothing that anyone who actually cares about driving a fun car, and is never ever going to be a selling point over driver involvement and feedback.

A Clio 200 Cup is about £15K and group 15 and is considerably faster, bigger, better handling drivers car.

THe 500Abarth is really pitched against MINI Copper (not S that's in different league) more a feelgood fashoin car that many folk detest with a pashion over what they consider contrived loosk and dodgy interior packaging, these are not my thought sbut ones expressed by many in Pistonheads forum, and dynamically it's no match as many know that under teh skin the MINI is one of the best hatch's ever made.

The whole point of the Twingosport is to give an affordable cheap to run entry level model to younger drivers who then get loyal to the brand and move upto Clio's and Meganes.

The 500Abarth is pretty much a stand alone halo model for the 500, as it may be a step up dynamically going to a GP Abarth but its priced the same unless going very expensive SS kit so not really a big step up in terms of building brand loyalty.

So until Fiat maybe produces a Panda Abarth entry model, and then maybe a Bravo Abarth step up model its not really a full enough range to entice people to move over from other brands as yet.

J333EVO said:

I think many folk are missing the point of Renaultsport's Twingo as I don't believe for a second Renault even consider the 500 to be a natural competitor.

The Twingosport in Cup form is little over £10K and has an insurance group of 8. Even a "full fat" model with cup pack added is still only £12K or so, about same price as a 1,4 16V 500 and lets face it, it's not even at the races.

A 500 Abarth is over £14K and is insurance group 13, add SS kit and its upto group 14 and nearly £17K, and that's before adding any extras, before you know it you could be looking at a £20K car, that's expensive in anyone's books, in fact 2X Twingosports. It is therefore considerably more expensive to not only purchase, but to insure. And that is paramount to any young driver, £4k in your pocket and maybe add another £500 for insurance makes it a totally different proposition. 2mpg is nothing that anyone who actually cares about driving a fun car, and is never ever going to be a selling point over driver involvement and feedback.

A Clio 200 Cup is about £15K and group 15 and is considerably faster, bigger, better handling drivers car.

THe 500Abarth is really pitched against MINI Copper (not S that's in different league) more a feelgood fashoin car that many folk detest with a pashion over what they consider contrived loosk and dodgy interior packaging, these are not my thought sbut ones expressed by many in Pistonheads forum, and dynamically it's no match as many know that under teh skin the MINI is one of the best hatch's ever made.

The whole point of the Twingosport is to give an affordable cheap to run entry level model to younger drivers who then get loyal to the brand and move upto Clio's and Meganes.

The 500Abarth is pretty much a stand alone halo model for the 500, as it may be a step up dynamically going to a GP Abarth but its priced the same unless going very expensive SS kit so not really a big step up in terms of building brand loyalty.

So until Fiat maybe produces a Panda Abarth entry model, and then maybe a Bravo Abarth step up model its not really a full enough range to entice people to move over from other brands as yet.

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Please don't praise any other brands on this forum, you'll get the 500 crazies up in arms. The only good car in the world is the Fiat 500, everything else is rubbish etc etc.

306maxi said:

Please don't praise any other brands on this forum, you'll get the 500 crazies up in arms. The only good car in the world is the Fiat 500, everything else is rubbish etc etc.

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Don't see too many claiming that, but to be fair this IS the Fiat 500 forum.

Murano16v said:

Don't see too many claiming that, but to be fair this IS the Fiat 500 forum.

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I didn't say everyone, just the crazies. There is so much insecurity in this forum with so many people feeling the need to go out and criticise the Mini, Twingo and other cars just so they can feel better about their purchase of a 500 which a good deal of people even on this forum realise is not a perfect car by any means.

At the end of the day it's just a Panda in drag and people need to get over themselves and stop thinking that they're part of some exclusive club or something which makes them special.

306maxi said:

Please don't praise any other brands on this forum, you'll get the 500 crazies up in arms. The only good car in the world is the Fiat 500, everything else is rubbish etc etc.

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I don't think thats 100% true. I think the Twingo looks like a great car for the money as is the Abarth 500. As I originally said before people started arguing "You pay for what you get"

306maxi said:

Please don't praise any other brands on this forum, you'll get the 500 crazies up in arms. The only good car in the world is the Fiat 500, everything else is rubbish etc etc.

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:life:


translation: 'yes, thats right! i bought a 500 but i secretly hate it and wish i could have bought something more expensive. all i can do is argue that cheaper, budget cars are better. yes, thats right! wish id bought a renault twingo, clio is much better, 500 is panda in drag, abarth is crap (well not really but i havent got one, so it is) etc etc blah blah blah'