General Together we conquor...

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General Together we conquor...

TheMercilessMing

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Dear all disaffected 500 owners to be...

Just a quick comment and some positive action.

I, like many, am in the difficult position of waiting for my (well the wife's) 500. We are very, very exited. But the process we have experienced has also made us anxious and cross.

It appears that if our 500 arrives after the 17th Jan 2009 (16 weeks from order) our dealer may ask for approx £2,200 more than our original agreed price when the car eventually arrives. Which we simply can't pay. Not too sure when we sit legally though?

This mainly relates to the increased VAT, something we didn't consider when we ordered the car (perhaps foolishly, or naively), and 16 week scrappage cut off. Neither of which were pointed out at the time the dealer got their deposit (should have read the small print I suppose) or gave us an estimated delivery time.

We, like some others, have also had very poor communication/experience from the dealer, and Fiat UK have done all they can to facilitate a dialogue, albeit powerless to influence any change. But we are both being told differing build dates, delivery estimates, verbal reassurances etc.

I know that there are a million "How for's" and "Where by's" that we all have. And I also feel even more sorry for the people that have ordered their 500 at full price, who appear to be delayed further than us due to the scrappage deals taking precedence, sorry - I didn't know about the 16 weeks either...

A glimmer of hope was an intimation on the Fiat UK forum that the Government may decide not to rigidly apply the 16 week mandate for delivery as manufacturers are having such high demand.

I accept that some are very angry due to their personal situation and delay. This mainly related to poor communication or lack of honesty (from a car dealer - there's a surprise!) from the dealer. I am willing (not happily) to wait as we are fortunately in the position to do so, and for as long as it takes (I don't think we should take priority over other orders) to get the car at the agreed price.

Could I suggest that all those affected, concerned or angry about delivery times (mainly due to the scrappage and the knock on effect) contact the government to complain about the 16 weeks time frame and the complications this had, is having and will cause. I am happy to wait my turn patiently but cannot afford to loose out on the scrappage due to factors beyond my control, or risk not taking advantage of the deal with another manufacturer if the opportunity passes in the meantime. This is affecting all of those currently waiting either directly or in-directly.

Putting it simply it appears that neither the dealer of Fiat UK can help our plight.

Do something positive... e-mail:-

[email protected]

I did...
 
Dear all disaffected 500 owners to be...

Just a quick comment and some positive action.

I, like many, am in the difficult position of waiting for my (well the wife's) 500. We are very, very exited. But the process we have experienced has also made us anxious and cross.

It appears that if our 500 arrives after the 17th Jan 2009 (16 weeks from order) our dealer may ask for approx £2,200 more than our original agreed price when the car eventually arrives. Which we simply can't pay. Not too sure when we sit legally though?

This mainly relates to the increased VAT, something we didn't consider when we ordered the car (perhaps foolishly, or naively), and 16 week scrappage cut off. Neither of which were pointed out at the time the dealer got their deposit (should have read the small print I suppose) or gave us an estimated delivery time.

We, like some others, have also had very poor communication/experience from the dealer, and Fiat UK have done all they can to facilitate a dialogue, albeit powerless to influence any change. But we are both being told differing build dates, delivery estimates, verbal reassurances etc.

I know that there are a million "How for's" and "Where by's" that we all have. And I also feel even more sorry for the people that have ordered their 500 at full price, who appear to be delayed further than us due to the scrappage deals taking precedence, sorry - I didn't know about the 16 weeks either...

A glimmer of hope was an intimation on the Fiat UK forum that the Government may decide not to rigidly apply the 16 week mandate for delivery as manufacturers are having such high demand.

I accept that some are very angry due to their personal situation and delay. This mainly related to poor communication or lack of honesty (from a car dealer - there's a surprise!) from the dealer. I am willing (not happily) to wait as we are fortunately in the position to do so, and for as long as it takes (I don't think we should take priority over other orders) to get the car at the agreed price.

Could I suggest that all those affected, concerned or angry about delivery times (mainly due to the scrappage and the knock on effect) contact the government to complain about the 16 weeks time frame and the complications this had, is having and will cause. I am happy to wait my turn patiently but cannot afford to loose out on the scrappage due to factors beyond my control, or risk not taking advantage of the deal with another manufacturer if the opportunity passes in the meantime. This is affecting all of those currently waiting either directly or in-directly.

Putting it simply it appears that neither the dealer of Fiat UK can help our plight.

Do something positive... e-mail:-

[email protected]

I did...
*sigh*

All you need to do is get the dealer to resubmit the order for scrappage and it'll be fine. VAT you'll have to swallow unfortunately. Call up BERR and speak to someone and confirm that you can do this, take their name and their number and pass this onto your dealer and then the scrappage will be sorted.
 
Great post... But Maxi is right... As the scheme hasn't finished, your dealer can just resubmit the paper work which will rest the 16 weeks.

It really is incredible how little the dealers know or care about what they sell!

crabman
 
Hi Merciless

Can I suggest that people also contact the TV programme Watchdog. I have it on very good authority that they are researching people's complaints about Fiat, particularly the waiting times.

They can be contacted at Watchdog, MCG A6, Media Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7TG or by emailing [email protected]. However, you may need to provide copies of your paperwork & documentation

Good Luck

Jules
 
Hi Merciless

Can I suggest that people also contact the TV programme Watchdog. I have it on very good authority that they are researching people's complaints about Fiat, particularly the waiting times.

They can be contacted at Watchdog, MCG A6, Media Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7TG or by emailing [email protected]. However, you may need to provide copies of your paperwork & documentation

Good Luck

Jules
Huh? Wtf? LOL!

Why contact watchdog and kick up a stink when all that needs to be done is a short phonecall to BERR and then a chat to the dealer? If you go to Watchdog they're going to say "Oh what a pity, we'll get a researcher to look into it" and then the researcher will call BERR who will then tell them that all the dealer needs to do is submit the scrappage order again and it'll be fine. It'll hardly make for rivetting TV now will it?

My post was there to help the customer, your one was made purely to cause trouble for Fiat, the dealer and BERR.

If this were me I'd have this sorted in half an hour tops and I wouldn't have to call in Watchdog.
 
Sorry me again (sigh's all round please)

I have just spoken with Berr (Gillian) to pose the question.

They say that if the manufacturer cannot deliver within 16 weeks this falls outside of the T+C's of the scrappage deal (which she kindly will be sending me by e-mail).

She said that dealers cannot re-submit again to prolong an existing order (effectively re-starting the clock on a current order), Fin! Whether this has happened previously is unknown, perhaps they have tightened this loop hole?

The official line they give if the vehicle is not delivered within the time-scale is that "Alternative arrangements" will be made by the manufacturer, but they will not say what these are, or be drawn further on this point.

Then they pass you the contact details for Consumer Direct. Seems to be all spoken off a crib sheet or something, they just stick to the party line.

Back to where we started, lots of hot air, speculation and verbal reassurances, but no concrete answers I'm afraid.

And I almost got my hopes up too...
 
Ming,

Same position as yourself.

Spoke to a different contact within the Scrappage Team who also stated that if the Reg No is already on the system then it can't be submitted unless for a new order (which means they need a new order number). Something new as it was fudging up the system and affecting the scrappage figures. They did state it wasn't 16 weeks though, that it was actually 4 calendar months - this gives you approx 18 weeks - still outside of my quoted delivery scedhule.

Backing up the comments on the Fiat UK Forum, there are ongoing discussions about relaxing the adherence to the 4 month rule for orders placed that now have extended delivery dates but nothing has been confirmed to date so don't rely on this.
 
Sorry me again (sigh's all round please)

I have just spoken with Berr (Gillian) to pose the question.

They say that if the manufacturer cannot deliver within 16 weeks this falls outside of the T+C's of the scrappage deal (which she kindly will be sending me by e-mail).

She said that dealers cannot re-submit again to prolong an existing order (effectively re-starting the clock on a current order), Fin! Whether this has happened previously is unknown, perhaps they have tightened this loop hole?

The official line they give if the vehicle is not delivered within the time-scale is that "Alternative arrangements" will be made by the manufacturer, but they will not say what these are, or be drawn further on this point.

Then they pass you the contact details for Consumer Direct. Seems to be all spoken off a crib sheet or something, they just stick to the party line.

Back to where we started, lots of hot air, speculation and verbal reassurances, but no concrete answers I'm afraid.

And I almost got my hopes up too...
Sounds like they're just reading from a sheet.

Call up the main number and ask for a guy called Hallet (Spelling?) and he may be able to help you. I had a slight situation with my scrappage and he clarified everything and I passed his details onto my stealer and I haven't had any phonecalls saying they had any problems so......
 
306maxi. Have you thought that there could have been a price increase within the order date and there could also be a price increase added to the extra VAT and £2000 that they are trying to charge. So it may not be that simple as to just re-order.
I have had the same on the delivery of my new 500 today. I had to make sure I registered the car before the 4 months were up or I could not have the car at the price quoted when I ordered. I didn't have to pay for it, just register it. That included the 500 at the pre August price rise. I have had quite a few bad days with the Fiat dealer and nearly walked away on a number of occasions. It seams that the info is changing all the time for scappage. For instance if you ordered after August you need ID to pic up the car. If you ordered like we have before august you don't. The ruling also changed on the excise duty of the scrappage but I am not fully up to scratch on that one. PCP finance has also gone up so we arranged our own finance and we have saved a fortune.
Picking up tomorrow.
I really feel for anyone who is in this situation or is going to be.
 
306maxi. Have you thought that there could have been a price increase within the order date and there could also be a price increase added to the extra VAT and £2000 that they are trying to charge. So it may not be that simple as to just re-order.
I have had the same on the delivery of my new 500 today. I had to make sure I registered the car before the 4 months were up or I could not have the car at the price quoted when I ordered. I didn't have to pay for it, just register it. That included the 500 at the pre August price rise. I have had quite a few bad days with the Fiat dealer and nearly walked away on a number of occasions. It seams that the info is changing all the time for scappage. For instance if you ordered after August you need ID to pic up the car. If you ordered like we have before august you don't. The ruling also changed on the excise duty of the scrappage but I am not fully up to scratch on that one. PCP finance has also gone up so we arranged our own finance and we have saved a fortune.
Picking up tomorrow.
I really feel for anyone who is in this situation or is going to be.
True, but a £400 rise is better than a £2000 rise.
 
A question for anyone currently on the scrappage scheme and getting close to 4 months. Do yuo know if it's from ordere date or scheme exceptance date?
 
Hi Merciless

Can I suggest that people also contact the TV programme Watchdog. I have it on very good authority that they are researching people's complaints about Fiat, particularly the waiting times.

They can be contacted at Watchdog, MCG A6, Media Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7TG or by emailing [email protected]. However, you may need to provide copies of your paperwork & documentation

Good Luck

Jules

Are you a BBC watchdog researcher by any chance :confused:
 
Sounds like they're just reading from a sheet.

Call up the main number and ask for a guy called Hallet (Spelling?) and he may be able to help you. I had a slight situation with my scrappage and he clarified everything and I passed his details onto my stealer and I haven't had any phonecalls saying they had any problems so......

Just spoken to adrian hallet (thanks 306maxi) he says if the order goes over 4 months, the scrappage has to be cancelled and reapplied for. But the scrap car can be the same, however it must be taxed moted and insured at the new order point. hope that helps!

The only thing i was slightly unsure about was he said cancel order, so i don't know if the dealer has to "reorder" the new car for you as well?
 
Just spoken to adrian hallet (thanks 306maxi) he says if the order goes over 4 months, the scrappage has to be cancelled and reapplied for. But the scrap car can be the same, however it must be taxed moted and insured at the new order point. hope that helps!

The only thing i was slightly unsure about was he said cancel order, so i don't know if the dealer has to "reorder" the new car for you as well?
:) Dealer shouldn't have to reorder or if they do it will be a simple cancel and reorder of that particular car from stock :)

Always happy to help when I can :D I wouldn't normally name someone like that but it seemed like the people from BERR were playing pass the parcel with you and that just isn't right (n) Seems Adrian is one of the few knowledgeable people working at BERR.
 
:) Dealer shouldn't have to reorder or if they do it will be a simple cancel and reorder of that particular car from stock :)

Always happy to help when I can :D I wouldn't normally name someone like that but it seemed like the people from BERR were playing pass the parcel with you and that just isn't right (n) Seems Adrian is one of the few knowledgeable people working at BERR.

Well it's certainly put some of my worries to bed :) thanks again (y)
 
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