General Best tyres for the abarth

flintymginty · Nov 6, 2009

Does anyone else think they Pirelli PZero Nero tyres fitted as standard to the abarth 17" wheels are a bit naff?

I feel like they have not got much grip when pushing it in the dry or wet, but compared to the Michelin Pilot's on our Vectra are really substandard.

Has anyone changed their tyres for this reason, and if so what are people running on and what do they think of them?

Don't get me wrong the Pirelli's are a good tyre, but I don't think they are suited to the 500 Abarth with so much power and so little weigh.

RobW · Nov 6, 2009

try these

http://www.marangoni.com/content.asp?L=3&IdMen=146

jnoiles · Nov 6, 2009

Toyo R888's. They're brilliant on my 500.

306maxi · Nov 6, 2009

flintymginty said:
Does anyone else think they Pirelli PZero Nero tyres fitted as standard to the abarth 17" wheels are a bit naff?

I feel like they have not got much grip when pushing it in the dry or wet, but compared to the Michelin Pilot's on our Vectra are really substandard.

Has anyone changed their tyres for this reason, and if so what are people running on and what do they think of them?

Don't get me wrong the Pirelli's are a good tyre, but I don't think they are suited to the 500 Abarth with so much power and so little weigh.

I think you need to try the car on other tyres before you can put something down to bad tyres. My car was so bad in the wet yesterday that I think I'm going to take it in for a look at the suspension geometry.

gib1970 · Nov 6, 2009

ive switched mine to goodyear eagle F1s, which are directional and crucially have a rim protector on them to help guard against kerbing which is very very easy to do with the rims on the abarth.

they're also terrific tyres and reasonable value.

Hellcat · Nov 6, 2009

The sidewalls are pretty soft on F1s which can lead to uneven wear.

DraigFlag87 · Nov 6, 2009

My Pirelli's were pretty naff too and only lasted 3500 miles or so. I got Toyo Proxes on mine and in direct comparison are quieter, offer more grip (both wet and dry) cheaper and have lasted longer. I'm due another set soon, (front and back

) might try something else but I'm a cheapskate when it comes to tyres, especially as they don't last very long!

jnoiles · Nov 6, 2009

306maxi said:
My car was so bad in the wet yesterday that I think I'm going to take it in for a look at the suspension geometry.

There isn't much to adjust. It's really just alignment and that's it. You can't dial in negative camber or fiddle with much else. Short of expensive coil overs and associated goodies. That said you can check that you don't have anything bent out of shape badly.

306maxi · Nov 7, 2009

jnoiles said:
There isn't much to adjust. It's really just alignment and that's it. You can't dial in negative camber or fiddle with much else. Short of expensive coil overs and associated goodies. That said you can check that you don't have anything bent out of shape badly.

I just wonder if I haven't got enough toe in because it just seems a little eager to change direction.

Wonder if anyone will make camber plates for the 500?

Like this?

Whiteline make really really good stuff for Subaru's including a load of polyurethane bushes, different thicknesses of ARB's, stiffer ARB droplinks (standard ones are plastic!!!!!!

), adjustable lateral links so you can adjust camber and toe in/out on the rear end. Would be good if someone in Australia took their 500 in and they were able to make some upgraded bits for it

J333EVO · Nov 7, 2009

Michelin Pilot Exalto (PE2) are very good tyres, one of the cars that was used to develop these tyres was the Reanultsport Clio Trophy 205/45/16 so you know it should work on a FWD car of about 1100kgs well.

Never had issues with Goodyear Eagles wearing unevenly, have them on my integrale in 205/40/17 and they are excellent, also had them on my Celica GT4, again excellent in 235/40/18.

I have also found that Uniroyal Rainsport 2 as used on Emmas FTO 215/40/17 are excellent. Very good dry grip, great wet grip and wear rates seem OK so far which included 6 hard laps of full Silverstone GP circuit. Again FWD, 1150kgs front biased weight wise with 197bhp.

In terms of top mounts if you look at the strut top on the 500 its very similar to what is found on Clio's, so unlike the Subaru strut top like many older cars have you need to use something like these examples from AST (Very well respected Dutch manufacturer for many cars) K-tec a Reanult specialist and Compbrake UK based company who I'm sure would be very approachable to get top mounts made of similar ilk.

306maxi · Nov 7, 2009

J333EVO said:
Michelin Pilot Exalto (PE2) are very good tyres, one of the cars that was used to develop these tyres was the Reanultsport Clio Trophy 205/45/16 so you know it should work on a FWD car of about 1100kgs well.

Never had issues with Goodyear Eagles wearing unevenly, have them on my integrale in 205/40/17 and they are excellent, also had them on my Celica GT4, again excellent in 235/40/18.

I have also found that Uniroyal Rainsport 2 as used on Emmas FTO 215/40/17 are excellent. Very good dry grip, great wet grip and wear rates seem OK so far which included 6 hard laps of full Silverstone GP circuit. Again FWD, 1150kgs front biased weight wise with 197bhp.

In terms of top mounts if you look at the strut top on the 500 its very similar to what is found on Clio's, so unlike the Subaru strut top like many older cars have you need to use something like these examples from AST (Very well respected Dutch manufacturer for many cars) K-tec a Reanult specialist and Compbrake UK based company who I'm sure would be very approachable to get top mounts made of similar ilk.

I think they're very similar, the Subaru one just looks different because it's got a strut brace running around it

J333EVO you seem to have a thing for homologation cars

Here's ours

Though it's not strictly a homologation car as it's not an RS but there's little difference. Group A certainly did make for good road cars

J333EVO · Nov 7, 2009

Not quite the same as the Subaru has a more conventional strut top where you get 2 or 3 studs on top mount going through the strut and then bolting in place, whereas the 500/Clio have no external studs/nuts on the topmount just the central bolt. Although this is nothing new some old cars have this set up, I know Emma's Dad's Clan Crusader from 1973 has this setup.

The AST one has three cap heads at front to alloy the two half's of the top mounts to rotate (concentric?) to alloy some camber and castor adjustment, the K-tec one you have to drill the strut top to fit the 3 locating cap heads, turning it into a more conventional top mount and giving greater security to the strut, but has no adjustment feature. The Compbrake again in two half's but screws together and is fixed with no adjustment, was supposedly developed for Clio Cup cars.

Yeah I do have a thing for homolgation cars, and like yours. Growing up in Scotland and having Colin Macrea driving Subaru's means I always have a soft spot for them, though never owned one, but then the boxer 4 engine owes a lot to Lancia as they used to build under licence the boxer 4 as found in the Lancia Gamma before engineering there own. Many/if not all of the cut away boxer engines used in many Subaru Dealerships is in fact a Lancia boxer engine from a shipment of 2500 that Subaru bought when Gamma production ended.

All said and done, if someone who had a 500 top mount I'm sure someone like Compbrake could make something to suit.

flintymginty · Nov 7, 2009

J333EVO said:
Michelin Pilot Exalto (PE2) are very good tyres, one of the cars that was used to develop these tyres was the Reanultsport Clio Trophy 205/45/16 so you know it should work on a FWD car of about 1100kgs well.

I had these on a 182 (standard on all Renaultsport Clio's, but the Trophy, Cup and Cup suspension pack upgrade switch to a slightly differnt Exalto with stiffer hard walls) and I felt these were great on the clio, but saying that the 500 feels so much lighter - I mean push it hard and change gear on a bend the the 500 seems to jump/wobble sideways as soon as you hit the clutch) but anyway, yeah I think I may switch to Exalto's. I've always been interested in Toyo's, but never made the jump because of mixed reviews and how they look (don't like the tread pattern! lol)

The Pirelli's just don't seem much cop in any weather so everyones advice is useful to help me make my decision. Good news for someone will be a set of Pirellis will be available with only 1600 miles on them, and still loads and loads of tread!! (6.5 on the front and 7.5 on the rears - see I don't push it hard all the time!!

)

306maxi · Nov 7, 2009

J333EVO said:
Not quite the same as the Subaru has a more conventional strut top where you get 2 or 3 studs on top mount going through the strut and then bolting in place, whereas the 500/Clio have no external studs/nuts on the topmount just the central bolt. Although this is nothing new some old cars have this set up, I know Emma's Dad's Clan Crusader from 1973 has this setup.

The AST one has three cap heads at front to alloy the two half's of the top mounts to rotate (concentric?) to alloy some camber and castor adjustment, the K-tec one you have to drill the strut top to fit the 3 locating cap heads, turning it into a more conventional top mount and giving greater security to the strut, but has no adjustment feature. The Compbrake again in two half's but screws together and is fixed with no adjustment, was supposedly developed for Clio Cup cars.

Yeah I do have a thing for homolgation cars, and like yours. Growing up in Scotland and having Colin Macrea driving Subaru's means I always have a soft spot for them, though never owned one, but then the boxer 4 engine owes a lot to Lancia as they used to build under licence the boxer 4 as found in the Lancia Gamma before engineering there own. Many/if not all of the cut away boxer engines used in many Subaru Dealerships is in fact a Lancia boxer engine from a shipment of 2500 that Subaru bought when Gamma production ended.

All said and done, if someone who had a 500 top mount I'm sure someone like Compbrake could make something to suit.

Ah yes you're right about the strut tops. I've spent so much time peaking around the Legacy's engine bay the last couple of days (trying to find the engine code) that it's strut tops were stuck in my head

I doubt many here would want to drill their car for camber adjustment

I wonder what sort of strut tops the R3T uses, could be a solution if they're at all compatible with road dampers.

I never really liked Subaru's till I met a guy who had a couple and then my wife and after driving hers you just can't help but like all that traction and power. Found out recently that Subaru are possibly one of the laziest manufacturers ever. The wifes car was first built in '89 and up until the bugeye in 2001 the Impreza used almost identical suspension and a tonne of other parts like brake components, subframes etc were all carried across till 2001. Well at least it makes spares and upgrades easy and it's a refreshing change from manufacturers playing around with bits and changing them once every few years!

306maxi · Nov 7, 2009

flintymginty said:
I had these on a 182 (standard on all Renaultsport Clio's, but the Trophy, Cup and Cup suspension pack upgrade switch to a slightly differnt Exalto with stiffer hard walls) and I felt these were great on the clio, but saying that the 500 feels so much lighter - I mean push it hard and change gear on a bend the the 500 seems to jump/wobble sideways as soon as you hit the clutch) but anyway, yeah I think I may switch to Exalto's. I've always been interested in Toyo's, but never made the jump because of mixed reviews and how they look (don't like the tread pattern! lol)

The Pirelli's just don't seem much cop in any weather so everyones advice is useful to help me make my decision. Good news for someone will be a set of Pirellis will be available with only 1600 miles on them, and still loads and loads of tread!! (6.5 on the front and 7.5 on the rears - see I don't push it hard all the time!!)

I think you'll find that with the 500 being such a light car and being rather primitive (meaning shoit in terms of suspension) compared to the Clio that it will do the wobbling thing with any tyres. I've been driving my 1.2 home on twisty country lanes the last couple of nights in the wet and it's remarkably not-surefooted and that's on Potenza RE 050A's. It's just not a surefooted car.

I spent yesterday ragging the wifes car (had to get it hot so it would start leaking oil onto the exhaust so we could find the leak) and compared to the 500 it's as surefooted as a mountain goat and that's with 3 times as much power and it's got very much worn tyres on the front and premium contact 2's on the back which are hardly hugely grippy. I very much doubt the 500 will be any less wobbly on Michelin's but you're always welcome to try

Pity your P Zero's are 17" otherwise I'd buy them

flintymginty · Nov 7, 2009

306maxi said:
I think you'll find that with the 500 being such a light car and being rather primitive (meaning shoit in terms of suspension) compared to the Clio that it will do the wobbling thing with any tyres. I've been driving my 1.2 home on twisty country lanes the last couple of nights in the wet and it's remarkably not-surefooted and that's on Potenza RE 050A's. It's just not a surefooted car.

Sorry - twas a bit misleading what I said - just explaining how light it is, it wobbles at gear change and unless the tyres are made or solid lead I doubt they will help!!

It's just how the tyres perform everywhere else which annoys me - I bet the continentals standard on the 16's aren't as poo!

I'm trying to justify why a new £400+ set of tyres is required when the current tyres are fully treaded, but I have to do something because I've seen a mint 182 with 15k on the clock for £7k... but that's the more expensive way to get a set of Exalto's!!!

J333EVO · Nov 7, 2009

The 500 Abarth is not that light, its quoted as 1035kgs, but when EVO mag weighed a 500 Abarth it was over 1100kgs, don't have mag to hand but it was about 1107kgs making it on par with a Clio 182 1110kgs and marginally heavier than a 182 Cup/Trophy at 1090kgs, and way heavier than the 172 Cup at 1011kgs.

Light is a Renault 5GT Turbo at 831kgs, Peugeot 205 1.9 GTi 910kgs, Clio Williams is 981kgs, even a MK2 Golf GTi 16V is 1110kgs, true those cars are all from a different generation and cars are stronger & safer now and owners expect higher levels of comfort and noise deadening which all add to the weight.

Some more examples of modern cars, Lupo GTi is lighter at 978kgs, and comparable Cooper S MK1 1140kgs, Corsa VXR 1166kgs & new Seat Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra 1172kgs, you're talking less than 100kgs difference, in fact about same as me sat in passenger seat at 85kgs

The bounciness, or lack of surefootedness is more down to too stiff springs matched to to soft dampers, really you want a softer spring and quicker reacting firmer damper to keep the wheels in contact with the ground giving a more supple and controlled ride.

The 16" wheels with higher sidewall would go some way to improving things, but if the Toyo's or Goodyear Eagles do have a softer side wall over the Pirellis you may find a similar result can be had.

Jimrod · Nov 8, 2009

"The bounciness, or lack of surefootedness is more down to too stiff springs matched to to soft dampers, really you want a softer spring and quicker reacting firmer damper to keep the wheels in contact with the ground giving a more supple and controlled ride."

Yup, this has been the Lotus formula for years, I really don't know why engineers can't figure this out!!!

For my 2-penneth worth I had these - http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m4b0s457p2040 (Avon ZZ3's) on my Fiat GP, despite the huge torque they never lost traction, were quiet, great in the wet and wore well - never even got a squeal out of them. Cheap too! Highly recommended.

flintymginty · Nov 10, 2009

Well, I have brought a new set of Michelin Exalto's for the 500, so the pirelli's will be available soon if anyone wants them (done a good job of selling them!! lol)

I was on the phone to Fiat customer service today (don't get me started, that bloody damaged wheel is back but somewhere else!!) and I mentioned that the tyres are crap and that the standard 16's with continentals are probably a hell of a lot better. They said they will tell their marketing dept about it, so if anyone else feels that they tyres are sub standard they should let fiat know! It will be the only way to save new buyers £400 buying new tyres for their abarth's!!

Looking forward to my new tyres arriving, especially after a spin today because of a stupid bloke who pulled out in front of me on a roundabout - obviously the give way to the right rules don't apply to him..

:bang:

306maxi · Nov 10, 2009

flintymginty said:
Well, I have brought a new set of Michelin Exalto's for the 500, so the pirelli's will be available soon if anyone wants them (done a good job of selling them!! lol)

I was on the phone to Fiat customer service today (don't get me started, that bloody damaged wheel is back but somewhere else!!) and I mentioned that the tyres are crap and that the standard 16's with continentals are probably a hell of a lot better. They said they will tell their marketing dept about it, so if anyone else feels that they tyres are sub standard they should let fiat know! It will be the only way to save new buyers £400 buying new tyres for their abarth's!!

Looking forward to my new tyres arriving, especially after a spin today because of a stupid bloke who pulled out in front of me on a roundabout - obviously the give way to the right rules don't apply to him..:bang:

I really don't think the P Zero Nero's can be that bad. I've heard a lot of good things about them. You've got to remember that you're coming into winter, it's cold, wet and you have a light and powerful FWD car. I stalled the 500 today and then when I restarted it I pulled away with not all that much throttle and the car felt like it was just sitting there spinning its inside wheel and I've got a 1.2 with less than half the power of your car.

I don't want to go on about winter tyres again but at this time of the year summer tyres just aint gonna cut it.

General Best tyres for the abarth

Currently reading: General Best tyres for the abarth

New member

fast Fiat fan

Um......

STOP! Hammer time!

Member

zombie nation

Banned

Um......

STOP! Hammer time!

STOP! Hammer time!

New member

STOP! Hammer time!

STOP! Hammer time!

New member

New member

New member

STOP! Hammer time!

Similar threads

Currently reading:
General Best tyres for the abarth