rusky27 said:

Notts I agree, Ive had cars also that the wiring is all in place and (nievely I reckon the wiring will be there under that bumper, and i'll bet that its set up for the switch/stalk too) - It just doesnt make sense to be chopping and changing wiring looms and ecu's when you could have a one size fits all senario.

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What do some people not understand about modern cars not being like old cars :bang:

All new cars are opertated via CAN systems! You cannot just add something to a CAN system and expect it to control it. This has to be programmed into the CAN at manufacture. Hense why you won't have the ability to add fog's and a switch to existing wiring even if it was there which it most probably isnt!

The ONLY way to add after market fogs will be to add a seperate switch and wire them directly to the battery. Trying to wiring them into existing wiring is extreamly likly to buggar other CAN opperated electrical functions up!

People understand now

Gosh its like talking to a brick wall at times

Most Easterly Pandas said:

What do some people not understand about modern cars not being like old cars :bang:

All new cars are opertated via CAN systems! You cannot just add something to a CAN system and expect it to control it. This has to be programmed into the CAN at manufacture. Hense why you won't have the ability to add fog's and a switch to existing wiring even if it was there which it most probably isnt!

The ONLY way to add after market fogs will be to add a seperate switch and wire them directly to the battery. Trying to wiring them into existing wiring is extreamly likly to buggar other CAN opperated electrical functions up!

People understand now

Gosh its like talking to a brick wall at times

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I can only assume then that Fiat have a long way to go down the electronic integration path.

My experiences have been slightly different, especially on cars with multiplex wiring looms, whereby we have been able to retrofit accessories without any problems and the ECU would recognise them, similar to plug and play operating systems.

I admit this was a few years ago and my knowledge of modern electronics is lacking but I am reluctant to accept that to fit a set of foglamps, standard on Sport models that Fiat would be so shortsighted as to make wiring looms, ECUs, body computers and canbus systems that can't "talk" to each other and be updated via the Examiner.

I guess until such time as someone actually tries this and can report conclusively we will have to differ.

I assume that when you say.

"The ONLY way to add after market fogs will be to add a seperate switch and wire them directly to the battery"

you are actually mean via a relay and using the dip beam circuit as the power source.

grimwau said:

My experiences have been slightly different, especially on cars with multiplex wiring looms, whereby we have been able to retrofit accessories without any problems and the ECU would recognise them, similar to plug and play operating systems.

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Indeed it used to be possible, That why I love the Classic Panda's. Base model never came with a rear screen wiper, but if you got one from a higher spec one in the knackers yard, the wiring was already there in the lower spec one to just add it in about 5min of work

grimwau said:

I assume that when you say.

"The ONLY way to add after market fogs will be to add a seperate switch and wire them directly to the battery"

you are actually mean via a relay and using the dip beam circuit as the power source.

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Nope, straight to the battery (with appropriate inline fuse) to added switch and then to lights.

The electrical systems in these cars are as such now that adding it to the dip beam circuit through a relay, even though the relay switching circuit will only use a very small amount of power, can be enough to send the whole system barmy

My 2004 Stilo is just the same with the CAN system, can't really add or modify electrics on it much. Only think I have managed to do is hard wire a 4 ways adapter to the aux power feed to the power outlet. I've also managed to get away with tapping reversing light feed for parking sensors, but this was only done because someone else had tried sucessfully.

You could well be right and find it's not that hard and that the system could recognise retro fitted fogs, but then again it could start the whole flashing mileage thing off etc, and that if the whole car doesn't just say 'Computer Says No!'

Jon.

The CAN bus does not need to be programmed at manufacture, the nodes can be programmed at anytime using the correct kit. For example autologic can program the CAN bus control for fog lights, front sensors etc on Land Rovers and a number of other cars. You can even program options, which exist but are dormant due to being a cost option. They are simply programmed during manufacture based on the ordered spec, but they can be re written.

Even if the wiring loom is not there as standard, more often than not you can buy the required loom as a spare together with all the necessary parts. Sometimes you need a control module for some of the options, but these can be bought too.

Whether you will find someone with the knowledge on a 500 to do it now, is a different matter.

Hi All,

Following an accident in my Fiat 500 (hit a montjack deer) I proceeded to install some spotlights in addition to the insurance works. The auto electrician was having great difficulty in configuring these lights to turn on. This was after finding no wiring loom, which he made up himself.
Since then I have had numerous calls to my local fiat dealer and to my horror I found out the true cost.

1. You will need to change the onboard computer @ around £500 - £600
2. A new wiring loom will be required
3. Fog/spots @ £125
4. I suppose labour & VAT
5. This is getting very expensive

Unfortunately I have spots that look nice but do not operate. To have retro fitted spots will require the factory fitted option.

So unless you near to a £1000 spare then forget it or install the fogs and have a discrete switch fitted in the car.

I hope this post helps. It is my first one

ECJ said:

Hi All,

Following an accident in my Fiat 500 (hit a montjack deer) I proceeded to install some spotlights in addition to the insurance works. The auto electrician was having great difficulty in configuring these lights to turn on. This was after finding no wiring loom, which he made up himself.
Since then I have had numerous calls to my local fiat dealer and to my horror I found out the true cost.

1. You will need to change the onboard computer @ around £500 - £600
2. A new wiring loom will be required
3. Fog/spots @ £125
4. I suppose labour & VAT
5. This is getting very expensive

Unfortunately I have spots that look nice but do not operate. To have retro fitted spots will require the factory fitted option.

So unless you near to a £1000 spare then forget it or install the fogs and have a discrete switch fitted in the car.

I hope this post helps. It is my first one

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Sorry it's not gone well for you but at least it's solved this argument.

I was actually looking down there the other day and I did notice that there were no loose wires hanging around just in case.

I was thinking of installing them myelf and tbh I think I'd just put the lights in and no wiring because tbh the whole thing about spotlights is the look because you will hardly ever need them.

Can't you take an electrical feed directly from the bulb connection of the main headlights?

nicholas said:

Can't you take an electrical feed directly from the bulb connection of the main headlights?

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Yes but then the foglights would be on whenever your headlights are on which isn't cool.

Easy to do without going into the CAN.

Will add a guide to the 500 section later. Will also add links to it and costings so you know how much your looking at.

CLXCraig said:

Easy to do without going into the CAN.

Will add a guide to the 500 section later. Will also add links to it and costings so you know how much your looking at.

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Yeah there's a guide in the Grande Punto section.

306maxi said:

Yeah there's a guide in the Grande Punto section.

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Hadn't looked there. I was just going to edit my post and say i'll put one in the "misc guides" bit as it's relevant to all cars really.

Perhaps the GP one could be shared to the 500 guides eection too if possible..?

306maxi said:

Yes but then the foglights would be on whenever your headlights are on which isn't cool.

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Not if you attach the cable tot he wire for the full beam on the headlmaps