frupi said:

Well, I've sorted out my own query with an extra added bonus!

I telephoned another dealer and put the question directly and politely to their service department asking whether my own 500 required any software updates. They confirmed what I had previously been told using both VIN number and Registration number, that my car does not require any critical or safety related software updates. Query resolved to my satisfaction. The bonus was, on asking how much they charge for a first service on a 1.2 POP with 5000 miles on the clock, they quoted me just under 85 quid (on the understanding that I supply my own pollen filter - (8 quid off the auction site) staggeringly less than the 149 pounds a more local dealer wants to charge. 85 pounds is what I would consider to be a perfectly reasonable charge to pay a main dealer for an oil and filter change. Ten quid more than an independent but with the added bonus of a Fiat stamp in the service log. I have gladly booked it in for that particular main dealer to carry out that service. I have since received a call from the dealer I originally put my query to, that the standard charge to hook up a car out of a service schedule to check for any non safety related software updates, is 60 pounds. Some things never change there! When my Neon lost all of its immobilser and alarm codes, the franchise dealer charged me nearly 70 quid to reinstall everything. It took them less than two minutes (I watched them) hooked up to a laptop computer to do the job. That's a pretty impressive charge rate! Anyway, my local Fiat dealer politely reminded me of the benefits of taking my car to them, well they would, wouldn't they? Sorry, but their service quote compared to the other dealer in my opinion is terribly inflated and hence the other dealer will get my business despite the fact it's over 20 miles away from where I live. Moral of this particular story is, don't be idle, get on the blower and make some calls, send some emails and don't take any clap trap from anyone.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I've done with both my services

frupi said:

Well, I've sorted out my own query with an extra added bonus!

I telephoned another dealer and put the question directly and politely to their service department asking whether my own 500 required any software updates. They confirmed what I had previously been told using both VIN number and Registration number, that my car does not require any critical or safety related software updates. Query resolved to my satisfaction. The bonus was, on asking how much they charge for a first service on a 1.2 POP with 5000 miles on the clock, they quoted me just under 85 quid (on the understanding that I supply my own pollen filter - (8 quid off the auction site) staggeringly less than the 149 pounds a more local dealer wants to charge. 85 pounds is what I would consider to be a perfectly reasonable charge to pay a main dealer for an oil and filter change. Ten quid more than an independent but with the added bonus of a Fiat stamp in the service log. I have gladly booked it in for that particular main dealer to carry out that service. I have since received a call from the dealer I originally put my query to, that the standard charge to hook up a car out of a service schedule to check for any non safety related software updates, is 60 pounds. Some things never change there! When my Neon lost all of its immobilser and alarm codes, the franchise dealer charged me nearly 70 quid to reinstall everything. It took them less than two minutes (I watched them) hooked up to a laptop computer to do the job. That's a pretty impressive charge rate! Anyway, my local Fiat dealer politely reminded me of the benefits of taking my car to them, well they would, wouldn't they? Sorry, but their service quote compared to the other dealer in my opinion is terribly inflated and hence the other dealer will get my business despite the fact it's over 20 miles away from where I live. Moral of this particular story is, don't be idle, get on the blower and make some calls, send some emails and don't take any clap trap from anyone.

Click to expand...

It's possible to do your own diagnostics. :idea:
Fiat provide a program for free for personal use. You just need the correct interface cable and a laptop. I haven't done this and I don't know if it works.

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/

Looking at other manufacturers e.g. Ford they seem to be leapfroging ahead with ways to 'connect' for entertainment.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/2012-ford-focus-to-feature-internet-connectivity-50001024/

It wouldn't be long before we will have some kind of 3G chip like they have in the Kindle where the manufacturer may be able to update the ECU with any safety related critical update so save costs on recalls. The OHs mito had a recall last year over re-locating a drain pipe which apparently can cause the timing belt to snap if the alternator gets 'frozen'. There was some documentated cases of this. A difficult one to do 'wirelessly'.

Fiatecuscan is not a FGA product, btw - it's produced by a keen third party developer.

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

frupi said:

No disrespect and please don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you tell everyone what these updates might be then?

Click to expand...

No offence taken however I don't think it's my place to say what they are however if you were to ask at local dealership they might tell you?

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

T14086 said:

...I don't think it's my place to say what they are however if you were to ask at local dealership they might tell you?

Click to expand...

That's perfectly understandable, more so if you're in a position where disclosing that kind of thing might compromise you. Some of the most valuable gems here on this forum have come from folks "in the know" but I'd feel terrible if you were 'disciplined' for trying to help the community.

T14086 said:

...however if you were to ask at local dealership they might tell you?

Click to expand...

I'd be struggling to think of anyone in my local dealership who'd actually know :bang:.

Whilst some updates can be important or even critical, others might be for stuff that's completely irrelevant to the person concerned. I've seen (and sometimes had to fix) far too many systems that have been trashed by folks who've just applied updates willy-nilly, simply because they're there. Equally, I've had to deal with problems which could have been prevented if the system had been updated - which is why it's useful to know just what an update is supposed to do before applying it. (It'd be even more useful to know what the update actually does, but that's probably not known, not even by the programmers who wrote it ).

Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I can just see some dealership updating my software to fix a problem I haven't got & losing 2mpg because it's also added a remap I don't want. And there are plenty of questions on the B&M forum from folks who've updated the software & lost functionality...

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

T14086 said:

No offence taken however I don't think it's my place to say what they are however if you were to ask at local dealership they might tell you?

Click to expand...

I absolutely understand what you are saying, but perhaps in hindsight, you shouldn't have 'offered' that little suggestion that there might be at least two software updates in the first place seeing as you are evidently not in a position to divulge possible intellectual property sensitive information.

I am in full agreement with jrkitching's thoughts on the application of non critical or safety related software updates. Why mess about with something if it is performing perfectly well in the first place? I'm merely satisfied that our own vehicle doesn't have any saftey recall issues.

So I mentioned in my previous post about two separate dealers charging two very different prices, one at 149 pounds and the other at 84 pounds for a basic oil and filter change on a car that will have only done 5000 miles in its first year. I did ask my local dealer what the software updates might be and I was informed they wouldn't be able to tell me that unless it was connected to their diagnostic equipment - charge 60 pounds (how convenient!) OR they will of course check it during my 149 pound service and apply any updates which might be required. This will obviously necessitate hooking up our car to their diagnostic software, but of course this is allegedly 'free' during a scheduled service???

Now bearing in mind the differences between the two dealers, I asked my local dealer if the diagnostic check was in fact built in to the 149 pound charge, a suggestion they denied incidentally, stating that a 60 pound diagnostic fee is only charged out of programmed service schedules. See my problem? Dealer two appears to be charging a Service rate which if you take the 60 quid diagnostic charge off the 149, brings it down to about 90 quid. I'm being charged 84 pounds because we've agreed I will supply and fit my own pollen filter. My point is, dealer one appears to be seriously suggesting that 149 pounds is good value for money to charge for simply changing an oil and filter and do a first year health check (oh and of course check for the dreaded non safety related software updates!) on our 500. If this is the case, they are living in a dream world as far as I'm concerned. They bleated to me that they offer a comprehensive, value for money service and they've checked their prices locally and are very competitive. Utter bs in my opinion. Sadly our society appears to thrive on trying to squeeze as much money out of us at every available opportunity. Many people will simply not bother to search around or phone about or even try to haggle a cost on anything. Probably because they earn too much money to be worried about it in the first place, feel easily embarrassed or simply because it is just too much hassle for them. Yes I have to now travel 21 miles to a main dealer instead of 13 miles, a minor inconvenience in my opinion.

All sounds like a bit of a rant I know, but all I ever ask for from any organisation or individual, is tranparency and honesty. I think my problem is, I'm just a cantankerous grumpy old man.

bgunn said:

Fiatecuscan is not a FGA product, btw - it's produced by a keen third party developer.

Click to expand...

Has anyone tried the above 3rd party developer ?

Can't help thinking that this might be a 'chicken and egg' situation.

Whoops! Seems like I can't spell 'tranSparency' I've berated myself accordingly.

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

jrkitching said:

That's perfectly understandable, more so if you're in a position where disclosing that kind of thing might compromise you. Some of the most valuable gems here on this forum have come from folks "in the know" but I'd feel terrible if you were 'disciplined' for trying to help the community.

Click to expand...

Nah it's not that I just don't think it's my place that's what garage staff are for and get paid for! I only know because a neighbour had these updates done.

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

T14086 said:

Nah it's not that I just don't think it's my place that's what garage staff are for and get paid for! I only know because a neighbour had these updates done.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, but you'll please forgive me for not allowing myself to be mugged off to the tune of 60 quid just to see if there are optional non safety related software updates.

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

frupi said:

Fair enough, but you'll please forgive me for not allowing myself to be mugged off to the tune of 60 quid just to see if there are optional non safety related software updates.

Click to expand...

Critical safety upgrades will likely be done through the VOSA recall system & will be done free of charge irrespective of vehicle warranty status - one obvious example being the airbag safety recall. If your V5C is up to date you should be contacted directly by FIAT, and you can also check yourself on the VOSA website - link below:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp

Re: Service Cost Shock & Question

jrkitching said:

Critical safety upgrades will likely be done through the VOSA recall system & will be done free of charge irrespective of vehicle warranty status - one obvious example being the airbag safety recall. If your V5C is up to date you should be contacted directly by FIAT, and you can also check yourself on the VOSA website - link below:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp

Click to expand...

Agreed, and I am aware that this would be the case. In fact, the dealer I'm taking our 500 to, said that critical or safety updates are applied free of charge. It's the non safety software updates that my local dealer says they would charge for. I just find it objectionable that they seemingly would like to sting me for 60 quid just to check. Thing is and it might not bother them one bit, but I would never take my car to them now anyway knowing what I know now. Nothing like exceptional customer service eh?