General Fiat 500/Ford Ka comparison

[AlexGP]

Ordered a 1.2 Pop today to replace my early Grande Punto, had no idea this morning that this would happen! It's the ultimate impulse purchase car this, the equivalent of a large bag of M&M's on the supermarket checkout.

I have to say that we actually drove the new Ford Ka before looking at the 500. It was dull, not as well made, not as well specced and actually more expensive. It will not keep its value as well. The worst thing is that the Ford salespeople actually seem somehow ashamed that their car is in fact a Fiat. They have renamed the engine 'Duratec' in line with the rest of their engine range and when pressed they will only admit to certain chassis similarities with the 500!

The funny thing is getting into the Ford, playing the game of spot the Fiat switchgear. Knobs, buttons, stalks, light housings - even the new car smell are all totally Fiat. It's a lash up, the old one was a very decent car that lasted 12 years but this one just screams of cost cutting and trouble for Ford. I did read that Fiat are making pure profit on every 500 they make because Ford paid for all the development costs. Judging the cars side by side, it's obvious who came out better off!

Anyway, apparently my car is 'in transit'. I need it by the end of March so I hope it shows up soon!

 

[306maxi]

I have to say that we actually drove the new Ford Ka before looking at the 500. It was dull, not as well made!

You do realise they're all screwed together in the same factory.....

I did read that Fiat are making pure profit on every 500 they make because Ford paid for all the development costs. Judging the cars side by side, it's obvious who came out better off!

and I take it you also know that the 500 and Ka are built on the Panda platform so Ford didn't pay for the development costs of the 500, just the development costs of the Ka.

 

[AlexGP]

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say about the dealers 'denying' their new Ka was a Fiat. When I pointed out to them they are both made in Tychy they tried to shy away from this.

Considering the two are made on the same line, it's hard to see how Fiat have managed to make their one so appealing and Ford's is totally dull.

 

[306maxi]

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say about the dealers 'denying' their new Ka was a Fiat. When I pointed out to them they are both made in Tychy they tried to shy away from this.

Considering the two are made on the same line, it's hard to see how Fiat have managed to make their one so appealing and Ford's is totally dull.

Ford have gone for styling that works for them, it ties in with the Fester, Focus and Mondeo and a lot of people like Fords and will go for what appears to be the Festers little brother. Personally it doesn't work for me at all as all Fords other than the Focus are pug fugly (Focus is just bland but not ugly) but like I said a lot of people will love it and go for it. Personally I think the whole Ford range is about as appetising as a fisting from a large black man but that's just me, a lot of people like Fords.

I doubt the dealers are denying that the car is made by Fiat, perhaps they're not rushing out to say it because there will be many people who will see that as a negative so why publicise it? Don't kid yourself, manufacturers have been rebranding cars or selling cars built on a competitors platform for a long time now so this is nothing new

Also, Ford will have signed off the designs for the car so Fiat hasn't screwed them over or anything, for Fiat it makes sense to sell as many Ka's as possible as they make money out of this and it allows them to keep capacity at Tychy up so Fiats can be made as quickly as possible. Also remember that Ford haven't had to pay for a whole platform to be designed as well as engines so Ford are doing well out of this too.

 

[Suasexed]

You do realise they're all screwed together in the same factory.....

Indeed, but the plastics don't feel quite as pleasant to the touch and the overall finish isn't as nice.


Aparently the costs for Ford to re-engineer the suspension setup was rather high, but not as much as designing a new car from scratch. Reading various press pieces Ford said they wouldn't have been able to develop a new Ka without the help from another manufacturer.

 

[Suasexed]

Oh and I was a massive fan of the original Ka, but this new one is such a disappointment. Did anyone see the Fifth Gear road test last Monday? That pretty much summed the new Ka up for me.

 

[Ulpian]

I was in Citroen dealer the other day waiting for my car to be checked ( I don't go to Fiat - too expensive) and I heard a customer asking the salesman about the Qubo, in relation to the C3 Picasso. The salesman told him that Fiat doesn't make anything themselves, that the Qubo is just a lash up of the Cit/Pug van, and that basically Fiat is going down the pan.
Interesting, given that the Qubo, like the French pair, is built by a Fiat sister company in Turkey on a Fiat/GM GP chassis, and that Fiat engines are used by pretty much everybody.

Car salesman tend not to be very knowledgeable about their product, especially at launch. They are usually unaware that praising a competitor and still being able to enthuse over their own cars is a good sales technique, and they take no time to investigate whether their putative customers might in fact be well informed.

And Ford salesmen probably possess the general belief that Fiats are strangely frightening eccentric cars unworthy of comparative consideration. They are car salesmen for god's sake.

Apologies to all decent car salesmen, of which I have also met a few.

 

[306maxi]

Car salesman tend not to be very knowledgeable about their product, especially at launch. They are usually unaware that praising a competitor and still being able to enthuse over their own cars is a good sales technique, and they take no time to investigate whether their putative customers might in fact be well informed.

And Ford salesmen probably possess the general belief that Fiats are strangely frightening eccentric cars unworthy of comparative consideration. They are car salesmen for god's sake.

Apologies to all decent car salesmen, of which I have also met a few.

Agreed. The Alfa salesman I talked to refused to acknowledge that the Mito would get Multiair engines

 

[Ulpian]

Agreed. The Alfa salesman I talked to refused to acknowledge that the Mito would get Multiair engines

It can be very depressing discussing what is in fact a major purchase with some of them.

 

[white 500]

all Fords other than the Focus are pug fugly too.

can't belive you off all people are bad mouthing pug's

 

[306maxi]

can't belive you off all people are bad mouthing pug's

Let me be serious for a moment. Everything that Peugeot has made since they stopped making the '06 range is absolute ****. I will never buy a Peugeot again.

 

[306maxi]

It can be very depressing discussing what is in fact a major purchase with some of them.

I tend to do all my research on things on the net and have usually already decided to make my purchase when I go somewhere unless I find something really wrong with the product in the flesh.

 

[Mark Elvin]

It's the ultimate impulse purchase car this,

Not quite.

Me & the Mrs went out for a walk 9 years back & came back having bought a £250,000 house!!!!!

Good to hear that we have another 500'ite

 

[T14086]

I was in Citroen dealer the other day waiting for my car to be checked ( I don't go to Fiat - too expensive) and I heard a customer asking the salesman about the Qubo, in relation to the C3 Picasso. The salesman told him that Fiat doesn't make anything themselves, that the Qubo is just a lash up of the Cit/Pug van, and that basically Fiat is going down the pan.

so Fiat have the massively selling Grande punto, the reliable panda & bravo, the brilliant 500 aswell as some great new engines/technology & 15% of vans on the road (in the world) are Fiat and citroen have..........




















...........


















....................

















.........................:chin:

 

[306maxi]

so Fiat have the massively selling Grande punto, the reliable panda & bravo, the brilliant 500 aswell as some great new engines/technology & 15% of vans on the road (in the world) are Fiat and citroen have..........




















...........


















....................

















.........................:chin:

C4 coupe looks nice enough, C5 is alright looking too. C6 is fabulous for a luxobarge but you're right, other than that Citroens are rubbish. I'm not being sarcastic either

 

[rkt2003]

My sister & husband have just bought a new c4 picasso and although its a step up from their previous picasso quality wise, it`s still quite souless!!
Road noise in the wet was just as intrusive as in the 500 but obviously the 500is much more fun to drive but for the money ,i would of got the 165bhp diesel bravo and more toys

 

[AlexGP]

Whilst we were in the showroom, we had a look at the new Fiesta too - the earlier point about the Ka being the Fiesta's little bro is brought into perspective when you see how good the Fiesta is, and how sh*te the Ka is. They've spent money on the plastics in the Fiesta, and I have heard that it drives really well.

Isn't it frustrating though when you know more about the car than the salesperson? Looked at the Aygo before, and the salesperson was adamant that although it's the same as the 107/C1 it is assembled solely by Toyota people in a separate part of the factory! Total horsesh*t! Presumably it had a different set of robots to weld the sheetmetal also.....

 

[306maxi]

Whilst we were in the showroom, we had a look at the new Fiesta too - the earlier point about the Ka being the Fiesta's little bro is brought into perspective when you see how good the Fiesta is, and how sh*te the Ka is. They've spent money on the plastics in the Fiesta, and I have heard that it drives really well.

Just remember that the Fester is a different class to the Ka. Look at the difference between the Panda and the Grande Punto for example. The Fester is horrible inside with the cheap ****ty silver plastic bit..... truly horrendous and horrible.

 

[Suasexed]

Isn't it frustrating though when you know more about the car than the salesperson? Looked at the Aygo before, and the salesperson was adamant that although it's the same as the 107/C1 it is assembled solely by Toyota people in a separate part of the factory! Total horsesh*t! Presumably it had a different set of robots to weld the sheetmetal also.....

All 3 come down the same production line, by the same Toyota robots. All 3 cars are 100% Toyota bar the odd bit of the shell.

 

[Nuova500]

Look at it this way, OK the old KA was a better car to drive and a bit more distinctive (but still very horrible), but the new Fiat KA wont rust within 3 years When I asked a Ford salesman about the KA/500 he was open about it but said Fords engineers knew what they were doing and it was a superior car to drive, different priorities he said!
Have to admit I did like the new KA when I saw it at the Paris show, but out on the streets it just looks awful...