percymon said:

Well its horses for courses - the fiesta isn't trying to be retro in any way, its trying to be modern. Owners of retro sytled cars are never going to like something thats the other end of the spectrum. I'm not exactly a fan either, but there are lots of people who are.

Click to expand...

Yes it is trying VERY hard to be modern, but it fails so badly!!!! It really does just look tacky. The key to being modern isn't to try hard, it's to just be modern. Look at the Citroen DS. Even today it still has a sort of out of this world/futuristic look to it without trying all that hard. I like decent modern design, I really do and as I've said many times I don't go for overly retro stuff. Sure the 500 is retro, but it isn't retro to the point of looking old, being cheap, being impractical and so on. The Fester is just U G L Y inside and out.

I think the operative word there is "trying". The fiesta dash looks to me like it was a first year design brief to use one modern iconic item (mobile phone) to inspire another... so someone took a nokia 6310 and copied the key layout onto the dash. Same with the Ka... we have to keep the basic design layout of the panda dash but we have to make it look really, really different so that no one notices all the plastic parts have fiat stamped on the back. Oh also lets put KA in big letters in the middle so no-one will doubt they are driving a Ford!

Whereas, in my opinion, the 500 doesn't look as if its trying. It effortlessly looks modern but still retains enough styling cues to suggest retro style.

Someone is going to say I'm talking a load of shash now.

There's me and 306maxi agreeing again. Sympatico or what?

I should point out that I don't dislike all Fords. For instance I still think the original Focus was a neatly styled car. Not beautiful or anything but it was very modern at the time. The new Focus, in fact the whole Ford range now is just the same bulgy/lumpy mess that Ford call styling these days.

I think their advertising backs this up too.
Wouldn't it be a shame if birds didn't use their wings? Wtf does that have to do with your cars Ford?
Blank canvas for the Kuga? Then why make it look like every soft roader out there?
Balloons on your car? Need I say more?

306maxi said:

Wouldn't it be a shame if birds didn't use their wings? Wtf does that have to do with your cars Ford?

Click to expand...

Is that a Ford advert? I honestly didn't realise that was for a car!

You and about a million other people. What a waste of TV airtime.

nottsfiat07 said:

I think the operative word there is "trying". The fiesta dash looks to me like it was a first year design brief to use one modern iconic item (mobile phone) to inspire another... so someone took a nokia 6310 and copied the key layout onto the dash. Same with the Ka... we have to keep the basic design layout of the panda dash but we have to make it look really, really different so that no one notices all the plastic parts have fiat stamped on the back. Oh also lets put KA in big letters in the middle so no-one will doubt they are driving a Ford!

Click to expand...

Very true. Effortless cars always look better.

nottsfiat07 said:

There's me and 306maxi agreeing again. Sympatico or what?

Click to expand...

Yup I don't think I'm as crazy and different as people think I am

306maxi said:

Is there any reason why you feel the nee to slag other marques off needlessly?

Click to expand...

Notice the ""? It was meant to be tongue in cheek. I drive a Fiat for heaven's sake.

Going back a couple of posts, the Puntos a strange car... when it came out in 1994 it was styled like no other car, it had tons of interior space and was quite a revolution in small cars. OK, the interiors on some look a bit cheap but it had a great range of engines and colours. Then they restyled it into the Mk2 which for me wasnt so distinctive as lots of new cars by then had edgy styling, and they ruined the ride and the interior was still cheap but now totally naff looking. Then for some unfathomable reason they took the cars best feature, its frontal styling and gave it the blandest look ever and still kept the crap interior.
Now we have the Grande, a very attractive car but... an awful interior and such dull driving manners... I hope one day Fiat make a decent Punto again but for now a Panda, 500 or Bravo are all far better machines. IMHO of course

IYHO of course
The GP is a classic piece of automotive design. So was the original Punto, and there are still many of these running, and looking as fresh design-wise as any new car. Brilliant design.
The GP has a hard interior which looks smart enough, and thankfully isn't totally grey, but has very poor storage facilities. I think people complain about it's design with reference to this as much as the appearance, as they don't really separate the two when commenting.
And it seems there were far too many design/manufacture glitches (see F Forum) which have taken too long to remedy. And, the usual Fiat problem, it was launched with a few really gutless engines which influenced commentators: first impressions

The Bravo hit the road with new and really quite exciting engines.

The GP gets the new Multiair 1.4s in September, and a light makeover, which includes a new dashboard similar to the Bravo. The engines will offer 10% more power, 10% better fuel consumption, greatly improved torque characteristics and lower emissions. This will make a big impact on commentators (the Mito gets the same engine at the same time) and give the very pretty GP a completely new lease of life. It should also get the new Fiat 900cc twin next year, offering decent power (85bhp +) and supreme economy.

As for the driving manners: the Linea apparently is incredibly comfortable and quiet. This is a result of redesigned bushings in the suspension. If the revised GP gets a more comfortable ride as well as the other improvements it will leap to the front of the pack. Perhaps the Ford will have 'better' handling, but for many people (me!) comfort is more important, and grip of course, and I have never been able to appreciate the supposed brilliance of Fords, finding them rather harsh and uncomfortable.

So, there you go. Great looks, great engines, fine interior, and a comfortable spacious ride: what's not going to be to like, after September

And the new, longer, Panda and the 500 will get the new little engines too. I can't wait

Ulpian said:

And the new, longer, Panda and the 500 will get the new little engines too. I can't wait

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention this as I had a phone call from Fiat in relation to an enquiry I made about the "By Diesel" 500. After asking if I had had a test drive yet I said that as my wife didn't like the colours we would now wait until 2010 and go for the 500 two cylinder turbo Multi Air in BNW if it hadn't been discontinued, LOL.

He replied that this engine would not be released in the 500 because he hadn't been informed and he would know before anyone else.

I also mentioned the 95bhp diesel that someone had posted info about which I said I had heard was being released in the 500C and he said that there wasn't such an animal and the most powerful engine you would be able to get in the 500C would be the Abarth esseesse.

That's from the horses mouth (or another orifice), .......you decide.

Thing is the GP is such an attractive car, when you get inside its a massive dissapointment. I really hate the body coloured dash, it just looks awful unlike the 500s which is classy. Ive driven a 1.4 16v which was gutless, a 1.3 90hp which had awful lag and a 130 sporting which was alright but had a terrible ride... I just hated all of them

Like you say the original is good, especially the GT in broom yellow. I remember when I had my Cinq Sporting, the first Punto I drove, I couldnt even believe it was from the same manufacturer as it felt so boring compared to the Cinq... mind you it was a Team with the 1.2 60hp lump, urgh!

grimwau:

Well: the Fiat salesman I spoke to before the 500 was launched told me it was a two seater!

And the 95 Diesel is a certainty. I have checked, and it is indeed the new Multiar2 version of the current 90. It will offer better consumption and far more torque. Whether it goes in the 500c is another matter.

And I have also read that the twin, which will provide 65bhp in basic NA form, going up in stages to a top output of either 105 or 110 bhp, will eventually replace the current engines in Fiat's small cars. Otherwise why make it? It offers significant improvements in economy, performance and emissions, and weighs a quarter less than the current 1.2, and takes up less room too. It will go into the back of the future Topolino as well.

I only get my info from the net, but Fiat employees aren't ususally so interested, and may also have been told not to release currently unpublicised info for fear of hurting sales. You can see the point. They wouldn't want people holding off buying in the expectation of getting a similar car with better performance, better fuel consumption, and zero road tax to pay, would they

The twin could be the engine that gets me back into a Fiat, I so hope it makes a nice sound

Thing is the GP is such an attractive car, when you get inside its a massive dissapointment. I really hate the body coloured dash, it just looks awful unlike the 500s which is classy. Ive driven a 1.4 16v which was gutless, a 1.3 90hp which had awful lag and a 130 sporting which was alright but had a terrible ride... I just hated all of them

Click to expand...

Agreed. But the Multiair2 95 Diesel has incredible torque low down, and this will address the lag, and the other new engines will remedy the other failings. Given suspension and dashboard tweaks the new GP should be very good.

The twin could be the engine that gets me back into a Fiat, I so hope it makes a nice sound

Click to expand...

It is supposedly very quick and very smooth. It will get me into another Fiat

So they're doing an Abarth version of the 500c? Well thatll pull the top of your head off

Opinion is a funny old thing... regarding the mk1 and mk2 punto... I liked the mk1, but never bought one, but when the mk2 came out it really caught my attention because of its sharp styling, and I actually remember thinking that most other superminis looked bland by comparison at the time the mk2 actually came out. We also test drove both back to back, and owning a tipo at the time, I felt that the mk1 punto felt no different to that, but then going into the mk2 it felt a much better drive and a nicer more quality feeling cabin. We bought one eventually and really enjoyed owning it. I think the styling of it lasted well and didnt look as tired as quickly as some superminis did.

I do agree tho, that the restyle that Fiat undertook really did it no favours. It felt to me that after the mk2 punto/ multipla, fiat lost its design confidence and lost a bit of the "this is what we want it to look like, we think its cool and ya boo sucks to you if you don't agree" mentality, which resulted in the facelift of the mk2 punto, the nose job on the multipla and the production of the stilo and croma, where they tried to make the stilo look germanic and the Croma was just forgettable. Only the production of the recent models such as the Panda and 500 does fiat seem to have regained a bit of its design confidence.

Please leave asking questions until the end of the lecture. Thanks.

:yeahthat:

Well, obviously the Germans loved the Stilo as the new Golf is a carbon copy The Stilo was possibly Fiats biggest balls up ever. The Croma was unfortunately the result of the ill thought out alliance with GM, however they drive well enough and the interior on the Prestgio is gorgeous, I sat in one at the GP launch and didnt want to get out. I bet if the Croma hadnt been a Fiat or at least got a better name it would have sold loads. The Stilo looked good in Abarth trim and a remapped 1.9 turbo diesel would really fly as I tried one, but the interior was dreadful and the five door sucked styling wise.

Notts, so you had a Tipo eh, weve had a 1.6SXie and a Tempra 1.6S... good cars back then... I still rate them now but time has caught up with the electrics and bodies