Not too many new posts to look at tonight so thought I would trawl through some older one from before I joined the forum and found this one from sledge interesting.

After the initial discussions started by baxwalker regarding the clutch/transmission noise on the diesel 500 it was originally thought that it may have been the fault of a dual mass flywheel. This was later discarded as a theory when it was stated that a car, after having been stripped down to investigate this anomaly, didn't have this type of flywheel.

Looking through the link above (if it is accurate) it appears that LUK supply a dual mass flywheel to Fiat, for the 500, albeit for the 1.4 petrol version.

Oh I so hope thats wrong Dual mass flywheels are notoriously unreliable and expensive... please say mine doesnt have one.

For those who don't know.... what's a dual mass flywheel?

306maxi said:

For those who don't know.... what's a dual mass flywheel?

Click to expand...

It's a flywheel with a little articulation from one side to the other. Springs inside to damped the articulation between sides. Helps to smooth out the pulses of energy that come from a piston driven engine.

Found this animation on Youtube. Helps explain it wonderfully.

The Beast said:

It's a flywheel with a little articulation from one side to the other. Springs inside to damped the articulation between sides. Helps to smooth out the pulses of energy that come from a piston driven engine.

Found this animation on Youtube. Helps explain it wonderfully.
YouTube - 3D animation of dual mass flywheel

Click to expand...

Cheers. All makes sense now! Can understand the idea behind it now

Oh its a good idea, but they wear quickly... Ive seen them fail with silly low mileages and the cost is around £600+ depending on car. A guy with a Laguna paid over 1k with just 75000 miles on his car and three years oldjust out of warranty it was.

nuovapanda said:

Oh its a good idea, but they wear quickly... Ive seen them fail with silly low mileages and the cost is around £600+ depending on car. A guy with a Laguna paid over 1k with just 75000 miles on his car and three years oldjust out of warranty it was.

Click to expand...

I think it should go into the "good idea in theory but in practice way too fragile" box by the sounds of it.

Yep, I hope mine lasts until I sell the car in 2011 ish

nuovapanda said:

Yep, I hope mine lasts until I sell the car in 2011 ish

Click to expand...

IMHO a flywheel is something which should never break unless you have it machined or something :crazy:

Agree, its daft isnt it?

Very curious. In the technical descriptions in the Fiat eLearn for the 500, it makes no reference to a dual-mass flywheel. In fact, the description for the 1.4 engine flywheel is precisely the same as the 1.2. And in the fault-finding section, there is no reference to any problem with a dual-mass flywheel under clutch judder and related problems. It does reference the flywheel, but only for the usual oil contamination etc.

So until someone strips a gearbox out it seems mysterious. As the Panda 100HP has more or less the same engine, it would be interesting to know if that has a DMF?

John

it's a mis-nomer/lost in translation

if anything it is the bottom pulley that is the component in question

a lot of cars have them now and whilst they are indeed lifed they will not turn to dust overnight

i had to replace one on my Alfa 156 Sportwagon and it was around £120 so no £1k bills in sight

Ford prides itself on the fact that the new Fiesta Diesel doesn't have a dual mass flywheel, for all the known reasons. If the little 1.3 Diesel engine really doesn't have one either then this will certainly be on my engine wish list for the new Qubo that I am seriously looking at. If it does have such a flywheel then all bets are off.

Does anybody know for absolutely certain if the Fiat 1.3 Diesel has a dual masser or not?

DMF failures are seriously over-exagerated. Driven correctly the DMF should last years. When the clutch failed on my 130bhp/300Nm marea I replaced the DMF as a precaution. Whole job cost £1000 but that included dropping the engne due to the size of the lump - think multiple hours of labour.

Hellcat said:

DMF failures are seriously over-exagerated. Driven correctly the DMF should last years. When the clutch failed on my 130bhp/300Nm marea I replaced the DMF as a precaution. Whole job cost £1000 but that included dropping the engne due to the size of the lump - think multiple hours of labour.

Click to expand...

:yeahthat: DMF's are fitted to millions of cars and fail on some for reasons very much like any other component, manufacture problem, materials problem, abuse.... whatever.

People are resistant to change, its like when the spinning wheel came into the world of cotton production, and when electronics grew in engine management, people hear stuff and panic. OK I got one on my GPS its OK and all smooth right now, if it breaks it breaks. For those who fear the technology I suggest a Practical Classic should be your choice of daily car.

They never go wrong do they......

It's not fear of technology exactly; it's fear of a huge bill. Actually I like my comforts and that inculdes tech stuff. I have no objection to replacing the odd component, but a £1000 bill for something that in the past never failed is shocking, and technically retrograde. I've had a number of cars get up to 140,000 + miles on wholly original transmissions with no problems at all.

So does the 1.3 have a dual masser or not: anybody know?

Ulpian said:

It's not fear of technology exactly; it's fear of a huge bill. Actually I like my comforts and that inculdes tech stuff. I have no objection to replacing the odd component, but a £1000 bill for something that in the past never failed is shocking, and technically retrograde. I've had a number of cars get up to 140,000 + miles on wholly original transmissions with no problems at all.

So does the 1.3 have a dual masser or not: anybody know?

Click to expand...

I tend to agree. There are just certain things on a car which should never break unless circumstances are extreme. IMHO of course

Thanks: agreed

Hang on a bit... starter ring gear failure requires the removal of a flywheel for repair, damaged flywhels have to come off and be replaced after extreme clutch failure, yes you are right those are cheaper to buy.

I have never replaced a DMF myself but its fairly straightforward as a DIY proposition as with a normal flywheel, according to Trade magazines I have access to, its testing a DMF that can be tough without the correct tools.
I accept they should not fail early and my main point is that they dont generally. Consider how much a new ECU fitted would be, or a set of injectors even if done by a dealer?

Not great I know but its not good scaremongering either

I'd like to see some accurate and reliable stats and data on DMF early life failure really.

so do any of the 500s have a DMF?