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Technical 500 Abarth Gearbox

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Technical 500 Abarth Gearbox

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306maxi said:
Yes but the 500 is a totally different platform and being a smaller car having a bigger gearbox will bring with it problems. I can tell you for sure that the Assetto Corse will be a total pig to drive every day and try to park at the supermarket or in a tight spot. The boggo 500 Abarth should be a car you can live with quite easily plus it's already quite expensive for what it is so why go adding an extra cog for very little benefit when the car will be driveable with a 5 speed. I've read a few reviews of the Abarth and no one seems to say it needs another cog.

I just don't get why people think more is automatically better.
Lets sum up the +'s and -'s of a 6 speed

+'s
-You can brag that your car has a 6 speed gearbox when most cars only have 5 speed boxes

-'s
- Less MPG
- Less performance
- You'll be changing gear more often
- Your car will have the turning circle of an aircraft carrier
- More CO2 emissions so you'll possibly be in a higher tax band
- More to go wrong with the box


Seriously.... if you have the torque band to use a 5 speed then a 6 speed only slows you down or gives you other issues.
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I get exactly what you are saying and I agree. I'm not suggesting that I would want one, I'm just saying that it could be done.

The main thing that I don't get with the 500 Abarth is why it doesn't have the same power as the GP Abarth. They could give it the same power at the same price if they wanted to and it would be even faster. It is just marketing bullsh*t, as they do not want to make a lighter and significantly faster 500 for the same price as the GP.

It might still be early days though. I guess that none of us know how the Abarth cars will be developed over the next couple of years, I just hope that they do keep developing / improving them and the brand doesn't just die out with the credit crunch. It was a long time waiting between the Strada 130TC and the GPA.
 
OPC said:
I get exactly what you are saying and I agree. I'm not suggesting that I would want one, I'm just saying that it could be done.

The main thing that I don't get with the 500 Abarth is why it doesn't have the same power as the GP Abarth. They could give it the same power at the same price if they wanted to and it would be even faster. It is just marketing bullsh*t, as they do not want to make a lighter and significantly faster 500 for the same price as the GP.

It might still be early days though. I guess that none of us know how the Abarth cars will be developed over the next couple of years, I just hope that they do keep developing / improving them and the brand doesn't just die out with the credit crunch. It was a long time waiting between the Strada 130TC and the GPA.
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Oh of course it can be done :)

The main reason why it doesn't have the power will be down to keeping the GPA relevant. Why buy a GPA if the 500 Abarth is faster. Like you say it's just marketing bs :)
 
not really marketing bs, rather product positioning within the portfolio and relative to competitors offerings

the product marketing team will have agreed the final specification along with the engineering team, so if you want to apportion 'blame' then the engineers will have had at least an equal input

Abarth will be run by talented individuals with a passion for the cars so they will be making them the best they can be to take the market by storm
 
RobW said:
not really marketing bs, rather product positioning within the portfolio and relative to competitors offerings

the product marketing team will have agreed the final specification along with the engineering team, so if you want to apportion 'blame' then the engineers will have had at least an equal input

Abarth will be run by talented individuals with a passion for the cars so they will be making them the best they can be to take the market by storm
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I still think that they could of produced a 500 with the same power as the GP, especially as it is the same price. I know that the two models are different and can appeal to different people, but how can the smaller / less powerful car be the same price as the bigger car? Because they think that they can get away with it, that is why!
 
OPC said:
I still think that they could of produced a 500 with the same power as the GP, especially as it is the same price. I know that the two models are different and can appeal to different people, but how can the smaller / less powerful car be the same price as the bigger car? Because they think that they can get away with it, that is why!
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You only need to look at the posts on this forum to see why Fiat are able to get away with charging more for the 500 Abarth than perhaps it's worth. Make of that what you will.
 
If the 500 is sold at £13500 then thats not bad, personally I think its worth more than the GP, as its a better made car and also more desirable in looks and appeal. For many, the 500 Abarth of the 60s is THE Abarth, the GP is just a modern car like any other, and its a GM co production and really not worthy of the Abarth name.
Dont really feel your last comment was entirely called for, but hey:(
 
I think what he was meaning was that so many people simply 'want' the 500 for purely emotional reasons that price becomes a seconary factor: allowing the company to charge accordingly.

I work with a number of people who, when seeing a car, state that 'that's a lovely car, I'd like one of those', or suchlike, without even knowing what it is. Often they make a purchase based on such initail impact. Similar emotions apply to the wanting of kittens and puppies, regardless of the practicalities of ownership.

People are not always rational.
 
nuovapanda said:
If the 500 is sold at £13500 then thats not bad, personally I think its worth more than the GP, as its a better made car and also more desirable in looks and appeal. For many, the 500 Abarth of the 60s is THE Abarth, the GP is just a modern car like any other, and its a GM co production and really not worthy of the Abarth name.
Dont really feel your last comment was entirely called for, but hey:(
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Ulpian is right, I'm just suggesting that Fiat / Abarth have tapped into the Mini market and people are buying 500's at the price they are because of the retro feel and individuality that they can add to the spec. Don't get me wrong, I like the 500, I'd just be interested to see what the profit margin is on them compared to the Panda, GP, Bravo, etc.

Why is the GPA not worthy of the Abarth name, not a dig at me and my car I hope?
 
nuovapanda said:
If the 500 is sold at £13500 then thats not bad, personally I think its worth more than the GP, as its a better made car and also more desirable in looks and appeal. For many, the 500 Abarth of the 60s is THE Abarth, the GP is just a modern car like any other, and its a GM co production and really not worthy of the Abarth name.
Dont really feel your last comment was entirely called for, but hey:(
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but that's silly. If you're going to argue that the GP is a GM co-product then it stands to reason that the 500 is a Ford. Both arguments are pure crapola because Fiat did all the design on the GP and the 500 and the engines are pure Fiat as is the design.

As for the Abarth name I think you'll find that the 131 Abarth and 124 Abarth's are just as famous if not moreso due to their successes in the World Rally Championship. The modern 500 shares about as much with the old 695 Abarth's as the GPA does with the 131 Abarth or 124 Abarth.

The 500 is a lifestyle product much like the Mini and therefore has higher margins due to the fact it's more desirable for some people than an "ordinary" car like the GPA.
 
OPC said:
Why is the GPA not worthy of the Abarth name, not a dig at me and my car I hope?
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It's shameful that someone has said this to you. Really shameful.

If the GPA is not worthy of the Abarth name then what in the current range is?

I mean how much DNA does the current 500 share with a 695 SS? :confused:
It's not RWD, it's not rear engined, it's not naturally aspirated and so on......

Famous Fiat Abarth's include the 695, 131 and 124 Spider. Does anything that Fiat made since the 70's deserve to wear the Abarth name if we're being anal about it? :rolleyes:

If we want to get silly then none of the current Abarth's should wear the name. I owned a 131 Mirafiori and it shared very little with the Abarth if I'm honest. My lowly 1600s had a live rear axle whereas the Abarth had a pretty sophisticated independant rear suspension arrangement. My car had steel panels whereas the Abarth had a lot of fibreglass panels and so on and on.

If you ask me both the 500 and GP are Abarth's. Not in the true hardcore sense of the old cars but still they deserve to wear the badge.... If Fiat were to be making true Abarth's with the current range they would be rather impractical for everyday use and they'd be very expensive.
 
Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions... mine is that the 500 is a better car than a GP and also I dont feel the GP is worthy of the Abarth name... its not a dig at anyone or anyones car, I dont expect anyone else to say my opinion is crapola etc as I respect yours.

If I have offended OPC then I didnt mean to, but mr. maxi you only seem to come into the section to cause controversy, never to offer advice or help.

As for the 500 being pricey, thats just rubbish... its under 8k for a Pop in white, 10 years ago Ford were asking that for a KA!!!

The threads now closed, its way off topic anyway.
 
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