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General Pop, Lounge etc

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General Pop, Lounge etc

John R Smith said:
Rob

I take your point. But I think that there are all sorts of complications here. If, for example, one was unfortunate enough to have a piston break up or a valve drop, then Fiat could very well say that they would not repair the engine under warranty as non-standard parts had been fitted which increased the power output beyond its design limits. And if a special camshaft itself broke, then I think claiming from a manufacturer in Italy for consequential loss could be pretty tricky and I, for one, would not expect much chance of success.

When I was selling parts for Ducati motorcycles, including various special cams, carbs, exhausts etc, we always specifically disclaimed any liability whatsoever for consequential loss, as we had no control over the conditions of use, condition of the rest of the engine, or skill level of the customer who fitted them. If it broke in normal service within 12 months we would replace the part, no more than that.

John (ex-John Smith Ducati, in another life many years ago)
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point taken and well made but there are companies that will warrant engine tuning as part of a tuning package. you pay your money and take the level of risk you are comfortable with.

for example, say an Abarth kit cost £2k fitted and I can do my own for £1k I would be prepared to risk it
 
RobW said:
You will be able to buy a 1.2 POP for 5k in a year's time.
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i dont know !! the recent fuel increases have pushed the price of 2nd hand smart cars to £4000 and thats for a left hand drive, these were selling for 2-3000 just 2 months ago so as fuel prices increase further the 1.4 and diesel ( diesel now costs over 10p per liter more) that may possibly take the biggest depretiation hit.
 
white 500 said:
i dont know !! the recent fuel increases have pushed the price of 2nd hand smart cars to £4000 and thats for a left hand drive, these were selling for 2-3000 just 2 months ago so as fuel prices increase further the 1.4 and diesel ( diesel now costs over 10p per liter more) that may possibly take the biggest depretiation hit.
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It's a crazy situation developing where the most important feature for many is the fuel economy so you may be right on the money there!
 
RobW said:
There are quite a few aftermarket tuning parts and packages available already John, the 500 is no different to any other Fiat and 125 bhp is easily achievable with camshafts, remap, induction and full exhaust. Not to mention that many prefer a normally aspirated engine to a turbo, especially for competitive use.

There is also the option of transplanting the 1.4 TJet engine from a salvage Grande Punto.

And finally, if you feel the need to beef up the looks all you need to do is fit different front and rear bumpers and some 17" alloys.

Hey presto, an 'Abarth' of your own creation.
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Except it won't have the brakes or the suspension to cope with it. Plus it will cost you aserious amount of money to acheive all that, which you will never recoup come re-sale time.

I'll bet if you added it all up, PXing your current 500 and buying an Abarth would work out loads cheaper.

In summary:

http://www.standardisbetter.com
 
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trackdayqueen said:
Except it won't have the brakes or the suspension to cope with it. Plus it will cost you aserious amount of money to acheive all that, which you will never recoup come re-sale time.

I'll bet if you added it all up, PXing your current 500 and buying an Abarth would work out loads cheaper.

In summary:

http://www.standardisbetter.com
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brakes and suspension will cope just fine, maybe some eibachs and uprated pads - job done

re prices, i agree, you are preaching to the converted, but if everyone was that conservative Carlo Abarth would have never tuned Fiats back in the day.

i could spend £6k on mine and it still be cheaper than an Abarth, and most importantly it would be my creation
 
RobW said:
i could spend £6k on mine and it still be cheaper than an Abarth, and most importantly it would be my creation
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You could shove on some eibach springs and some uprated pads. It may improve things, but it won't be a properly developed suspension system and will be a bit hit and miss as to how well it works. Also don't forget the Abarth has the important rear ARB.

Isn't the price difference between a 500 sport and an Abarth no more than 2-3K?

Having modified cars extensively over the years i've come to the conclusion that it is generally not worth it. In saying that its a lot of fun though, but if you are going to modify it makes much more sense to start with the model that has the most performance to start with.
 
trackdayqueen said:
You could shove on some eibach springs and some uprated pads. It may improve things, but it won't be a properly developed suspension system and will be a bit hit and miss as to how well it works. Also don't forget the Abarth has the important rear ARB.

Isn't the price difference between a 500 sport and an Abarth no more than 2-3K?

Having modified cars extensively over the years i've come to the conclusion that it is generally not worth it. In saying that its a lot of fun though, but if you are going to modify it makes much more sense to start with the model that has the most performance to start with.
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Eibach hit and miss - don't think so mate... Ok i may also fit the arb.
Car as it stands could easily handle more power, have you driven one to know how good it is?

Mine only cost me £8500

I enjoy modifying to my own specification, and am good at it :)
 
RobW said:
Eibach hit and miss - don't think so mate... Ok i may also fit the arb.
Car as it stands could easily handle more power, have you driven one to know how good it is?

Mine only cost me £8500

I enjoy modifying to my own specification, and am good at it :)
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I don't appreciate being called 'mate' but anyway...

Don't think you will just be able to fit a rear ARB quite that easily... although i haven't studied the rear end of the 500 extensively but it looks exactly like the panda which doesn't have the provision for fitment of an aftermarket ARB.

Nope haven't driven one, i've got a panda multijet which handles like an understeering bag of crap. I sincerely hope the 500 is a lot better. One thing that turned me onto the Abarth was the addition of the crucially needed ARB.

Just out of interest, how do you know you are 'good' at modifying? I'm intrigued. Are you an expert on handling, do you have years of racing/track experience? ;)
 
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RobW said:
There are quite a few aftermarket tuning parts and packages available already John, the 500 is no different to any other Fiat and 125 bhp is easily achievable with camshafts, remap, induction and full exhaust. Not to mention that many prefer a normally aspirated engine to a turbo, especially for competitive use.

There is also the option of transplanting the 1.4 TJet engine from a salvage Grande Punto.

And finally, if you feel the need to beef up the looks all you need to do is fit different front and rear bumpers and some 17" alloys.

Hey presto, an 'Abarth' of your own creation.
Click to expand...


WITH NO WARRANTY?? fiat has a system NOW in place according to my techs who went abarth training that remaps can be seen as it changes a number fiat put on the ecu! therefore re-map on warranty cars are not ideal, especially on a major warranty claim! the abarth is more than just few mods. apparently when they went on the track the driver was kicking the rear end out on EVERY BEND showing off to our techs exactly what power is going on in the lil thing! if u think the difference is just a case of modding then ur mistaken!

there is only 12 abarth dealers could go up to 14!
 
RobW said:
Your warranty would be stay intact anyway John, as the parts that are fitted have their own warranty. As long as you buy quality parts from a reputable supplier.

Say the camshaft fails and takes out the engine, you would claim on the camshaft manufacturer.

A common mis-conception of aftermarket tuning...
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the parts have their own warrenty but if the upgraded parts contribute to another fault ie various parts changed like exhaust they could say it has put strain on the engine which is was otherwise designed for thus kickin it out of warranty
 
nuovapanda said:
It wont, but give it a few months and youll get a bargain.... theres no way they will get the predicted high second hand prices Fiat want.
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the fact fiat STILL have no deals on 500 says they will hold their value short term. abarth will not effect sale because abarth is for thrill seekers not fuel savers.

i work for fiat and cant get a penny off a new 500! re-sale value must be great at the minute
 
RobW said:
Yes I am trained and experienced.
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Just out of interest can you elaborate a bit further please?

I can tell you through my own experience that modifying doesn't always make a car better. When you put on modified suspension it won't necessarily improve the handling. I've tried cars with awful damper/spring combinations. Also i've had cars where it worked quite well, but just changing the springs and dampers wouldn't necessarily make a car handle the way i wanted to. It took hours of testing on track and I would try out different geo settings and compare.

So as you can see its not always that simple. Also add to this that a lot of people don't understand what handling actually is and get confused with roadholding ie mechanical grip.

Also manufacturers develop the handling of their cars with vast amount of money and R&D time. No singular person can hope to replicate that realistically.
 
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