Technical URGENT HELP with OIL

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Technical URGENT HELP with OIL

DaveNC

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I have just checked my oil level on my 1.3 multijet and there is nothing showing on the stick even though I have done 8,500m I find this somewhat worrying howver I gave not had the oil light showing.

If you look in the handbook it is somewhat less than helpful. Other than giving you a statement saying " Lubricants with synthetic base" does that mean fully synthetic or part-synthetic. Then as well as the viscosity of 5 - 30 it suggests "if you cannot get Fiat oil then use nothing lower that ACEA C£ and ACEA C2." Now when you look at Halfords, Castrol or Mobil they all quote A2 and A3. Is that more or less than C2 or C3?

Even looking on the web I cannot make sense of this.
 
No believe me it is dry. After 8500 miles it is no longer clear. The dipstick is covered in oil when you bring it out after it has been running. Extremely black in colour - as it would be after this mileage. However when you clean and redip it is absolutely dry.
 
I have just checked my oil level on my 1.3 multijet and there is nothing showing on the stick even though I have done 8,500m I find this somewhat worrying howver I gave not had the oil light showing.

If you look in the handbook it is somewhat less than helpful. Other than giving you a statement saying " Lubricants with synthetic base" does that mean fully synthetic or part-synthetic. Then as well as the viscosity of 5 - 30 it suggests "if you cannot get Fiat oil then use nothing lower that ACEA C£ and ACEA C2." Now when you look at Halfords, Castrol or Mobil they all quote A2 and A3. Is that more or less than C2 or C3?

Even looking on the web I cannot make sense of this.

You think thats bad....honda recommend I check the oil on my 2.2cdti civic at every petrol stop:eek:.

Yoshi
 
Please tell me you didn't wait 8,500 miles to check your oil? If you wait for your oil light to come on it's far too late, at least check it once per month.
 
It is somewhat bewildering when Halfords have a number of 5-30w for different car manufacturers. I amy try and go to a main dealers tomorrow

Thanks
 
Dave

Hope this helps ...FOUND ON TINTERNET

Oils Explained
What's written on your oil bottle and what does it mean.
This post may seem like going back to basics but I am constantly surprised by the amount of people who do not know or understand what is written on a bottle of oil and therefore no idea of what they are buying/using.
To be blunt about the subject, if a bottle of oil does not contain the following basic information then DO NOT buy it look for something that does!
1) The purpose for which it is intended (i.e. Motor oil, Gear oil etc)
2) The viscosity (i.e. 10w-40, 5w-30 etc for Motor oils and 80w-90, 75w-90, etc for Gear oils)
3) The specifications that it meets (should contain both API and ACEA ratings)
4) The OEM Approvals that it carries and the codes (i.e. MB229.3, VW503.00, BMW LL01 etc)
Ignore the marketing blurb on the label it is in many cases meaningless and I will explain later what statements you should treat this with some scepticism
So, what does the above information mean and why is it important?
THE BASICS
All oils are intended for an application and in general are not interchangeable. You would not for example put an Automatic Transmission Oil or a Gear Oil in your engine! It is important to know what the oils intended purpose is.
VISCOSITY
Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)
Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.
In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oils cold temperature/cold start performance.
The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100 degC. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.
SPECIFICATIONS
Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of the oil and whether they have met or passed the latest tests or whether the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date. There are two specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d'Automobiles) all good oils should contain both of these and an understanding of what they mean is important.
API
This is the more basic as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories. S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.
The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:
PETROL
SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.
SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.
SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
Note:
All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.
DIESEL
CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only
CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines
CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine
CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines
CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines
CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests
CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels
CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.
Note:
All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.
If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4
ACEA
This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).
Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:
A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance
B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance
C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.
Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.
Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.
APPROVALS
Many oils mention various OEM's on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB or BMW but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying a top oil because of this.
Oil Companies send their oils to OEM's for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.
Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:
VW - 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00
Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils
MB - 229.1
Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.
BMW - LL98
Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.



MOBIL 1 is as follows;

API SJ/SL/SM/CF; ACEA A3/B3; A3/B4
0W -40
 
Don't be using a 0W anything. Way too thin for a road engine.

As said above, oil needs to be checked at least every month, I do mine every week. The first few thousand miles are the worst for oil consumption, as everything beds in.

Cheers

PD
 
Rallycinq, why do you say that ref 0W?

Surely protection from cold and getting the oil round is beneficial ?

cos he's right it's a little too thin and will drain off the engine too quick as it is circulated from cold

why would you ask anyway your affectively asking why your shouldnt use something else other than what your suppose to use in it
 
cos he's right it's a little too thin and will drain off the engine too quick as it is circulated from cold

why would you ask anyway your affectively asking why your shouldnt use something else other than what your suppose to use in it


I think it may be a vicious circle, it does drain off quicker, but will circulate into a 'dry' engine from start-up quicker.

Looking at the spec on oils, the original posted question, and the information gleaned from the net, I was suggesting that if in doubt go for something that is over-specced, such as Mobil 1.

Agree with you though that you should use the oil as descibed by Fiat.
 
Don't be using a 0W anything. Way too thin for a road engine.

As said above, oil needs to be checked at least every month, I do mine every week. The first few thousand miles are the worst for oil consumption, as everything beds in.

Cheers

PD

Not quite true, my Honda Insight ran on 0w20!!!!!!, at a cost of £25 a litre!!!!! Thankfully it only took 2 litres & never used a frop.

Back on topic, it's not unusual for car engines to use up to 1litre of oil per 1000miles.
 
I think it may be a vicious circle, it does drain off quicker, but will circulate into a 'dry' engine from start-up quicker.

Looking at the spec on oils, the original posted question, and the information gleaned from the net, I was suggesting that if in doubt go for something that is over-specced, such as Mobil 1.

Agree with you though that you should use the oil as descibed by Fiat.

not quite the pump at idle speed will run it round the engine just as quick no mater how thick thin it is as it's running at constant speed

it's always best to keep the viscosity rating the same but buy all means chose higher specs in al other areas

but no to high for example if you were to jump up to fully synthetic in an older engine or engine designed for semi it would not help any
 
Last edited:
After 8500 miles it is no longer clear.

Correct. Bear in mind in theiory the car is over halfway to its next service. (I'm assuming its every 10,000/12,000 miles.)

Please tell me you didn't wait 8,500 miles to check your oil? If you wait for your oil light to come on it's far too late, at least check it once per month.

Everyone should Idealy check engine oil weekly with all the other weekly checks;)

The first few thousand miles are the worst for oil consumption, as everything beds in.

:yeahthat:


Am I right in assuming the dipstick read's only 1/3 of the oil content, so if not reading on the dipstick it could still have 2/3 of the engine oil capacity in it, hence why the light hasn't come on, but as said, the sooner it's topped up the better(y)
 
The oil pressure light won't necessarily come on as it measures oil pressure.

As long as the pick-up pipe is submerged and oil can reach the pressure switch, it'll stay off. I've known vehicles with a 3 litre capacity to come in for a safety check and require 2 litres to top-up to the max, and still the light didn't come on.

;)
 
Rallycinq, why do you say that ref 0W?

Surely protection from cold and getting the oil round is beneficial ?

Standard car engines, Honda Insights excepted, are not built to tolerances fine enough to contain an 0W oil.

It will seep from joints that a 5W or 10W won't.

As said many times, use what is recommended.

Cheers

PD
 
The oil pressure light won't necessarily come on as it measures oil pressure.

As long as the pick-up pipe is submerged and oil can reach the pressure switch, it'll stay off. I've known vehicles with a 3 litre capacity to come in for a safety check and require 2 litres to top-up to the max, and still the light didn't come on.

;)

that's not uncommon the oil pick up is right at the bottom of the sump so in theory could pick up allot less that 1 litre but when oil starts to get low it gets aerated and does not lubricate properly that's when you'll start to see the oil light flickering
 
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