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General Why bother with a diesel

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General Why bother with a diesel

white 500 said:
Exactly each to there own
in my eyes the extra you get from the derv is not worth the extra outlay.
p/s to my understanding the 1.3mjet isn't turbo'd it's actualy supercharged (acording to the fiat 500 brochure)
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Just translated Italian terminology. It definitely is a turbo!

As to why go for the diesel it is probably more about driving preference than cost. I think Italian engines should be revved to near death every day but there is no reason why Fiats should be made a particular way. The diesel is a completely different driving experience.

The multijet is the more modern engine and has the awards whilst the petrols seem fine enough for those not converted over to diesel torque.

Some cars have very weak engines in the range, the 500 has a range which suits different people.

I drove a 1.4 Grande Punto and found it to be as dull as ditchwater whereas the 500 felt alive. So I guess that just goes to show how we think differently. The same is true for the 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4 choice in a 500.

Cheers
Baldrick
 
The 1.3 is turbocharged - it uses a variable vane turbo - the blades of the turbo basically change angle to give good response across the rev range (fixed blades mean soem turbo lag). The mjet can be remapped for £200 to 100bhp which turns it into something a 1.2 will never be, and increases the onroad performance gap even more.

Stick your 1.2 in top gear at 50mph and see how long it takes to get to 70 - i bet you are still counting at 15 seconds.

As to the emissions i'd forgotten the 1.2 also scrapes into the £35 band - it doesn't on the Punto.

Each to their own - a 1.2 now, or a 1.3 for the same money in 3-4 months time (once the discounts start) - easy decision in my opinion
 
percymon said:
The 1.3 is turbocharged - it uses a variable vane turbo - the blades of the turbo basically change angle to give good response across the rev range (fixed blades mean soem turbo lag). The mjet can be remapped for £200 to 100bhp which turns it into something a 1.2 will never be, and increases the onroad performance gap even more.

Stick your 1.2 in top gear at 50mph and see how long it takes to get to 70 - i bet you are still counting at 15 seconds.

As to the emissions i'd forgotten the 1.2 also scrapes into the £35 band - it doesn't on the Punto.

Each to their own - a 1.2 now, or a 1.3 for the same money in 3-4 months time (once the discounts start) - easy decision in my opinion
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don't realy do 50-70 in a city enviroment but drop to forth and it will stay with the diesel, plus re-mapping will use a bit more fuel bringing it closer to the 1.2 in terms of economy and IF discounts start and fiat say they won't be then the 1.2 price will also be discounted
 
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white 500 said:
plus re-mapping will use a bit more fuel bringing it closer to the 1.2 in terms of economy
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Aint necessarily so... depends how the driver utilises the extra released energy.
 
I asked Mangoletsi about discounts in a few months time, and there was a wink fom the saleman.

Remapping a mjet will get you more mpg, because you get more power where you want it, and therfore use less throttle !

Sorry but no way will any 1.2 keep up with the diesel - its got less bhp, the peak bhp is higher up in the rev range, and no torque. The diesel revs more freely so tyou can't even say its slow to pick up revs - Drive the diesel and you'll find out for yourself - that speedo needle is a lot further round the dial than you think !

I'm not buying either so i'm completely impartial in all this :D :D :D
 
percymon said:
I asked Mangoletsi about discounts in a few months time, and there was a wink fom the saleman.

Remapping a mjet will get you more mpg, because you get more power where you want it, and therfore use less throttle !

Sorry but no way will any 1.2 keep up with the diesel - its got less bhp, the peak bhp is higher up in the rev range, and no torque. The diesel revs more freely so tyou can't even say its slow to pick up revs - Drive the diesel and you'll find out for yourself - that speedo needle is a lot further round the dial than you think !

I'm not buying either so i'm completely impartial in all this :D :D :D
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i have driven the diesel and although it did feel faster fiats own performance figures show it is but only just ! as it only has 6 bhp and 43nm of torque more but it wieghs 115kg more so the 1.2 has a power to wieght ratio of 79 bhp per ton the diesel is 75bhp per ton so in the real world they are no quicker
 
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yes they are:) I drove them back to back... drove down a slip road in 5th and at the bottom the Mway started to climb... the 1.3 got up to 70 at the junction, the 1.2 a miserable 55mph. Left them both in 5th and hit the throttle up the hill, at the top the 1.3 was hitting 85 and still pulling, the 1.2 just managed just over 70 and felt awful... was no contest really.
Even my wife noticed how sluggish the petrol was and she too liked the noise of the diesel.
I also found the extra weight up front actually improved the ride, less bouncy than a 1.2.
 
Not buying a 500 so a bit impartial here.

I have both a petrol and diesel Fiat. Both around the 150bhp mark. The diesel about 200-250Kg heavier than the petrol. Which sounds better - petrol. Which is most refined - diesel. ecconomical - diesel. fun - petrol. fastest - diesel.

Anyone who starts a 'petrols are better than diesels' arguement with 'clunky diesel' as their first argument is obviously lacking in the knowledge to have that arguement. Diesels are louder than petrols for about the first 50rpm over tickover. After that it's a silent thrum of torque and power upto the next gear change.

For as much as I love petrol engines - they've not really advanced much compared to the huge improvements in diesel technology. The 1.9 lump has gone from around 100hp for the Bravo TD of the 1990s to what will be nearly 200bhp for the anticipated bi-turbo multijet - all the time improving on sound and ecconomy. What do you get out of a 2.0 petrol now? Wasn't much more than the 150bhp available at the time of the Bravo.
 
Have to say, I think that it's a bit of a shame that people get hung up on 'dissing' another model or option to justify their choice of purchase.
I'm so excited that I am finally going to pick up my much awaited 1.2 lounge tomorrow, and thought i'd check out the forum, that has so far fed my need during the almost painful wait. Unfortunately, I now feel deflated and wondering if the car will keep me happy, not only as a city car, but on some of the long motorway drives I need to make for my job. :confused:

I as soooo looking forward to making these drives, just me, Lulu and the road.....:cry:
 
Diesel any day of the week.

I own a 1.2 8v FIRE GP, and previously owned a 1.2 8v FIRE MK1 punto.

These engines sound like a bag of loose spanners. Sure they go when revved, but theres just no muscle whatsoever.

A 1.3 MJet might be "slow", but atleast if feels like theres some muscle behind the acceleration, as apposed to weedyness.
 
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At the end of the day the 1.3 diesel and the 1.2 are slow.........I'm not buying mine for performance, but overall economy of running the vehicle over the time I own it.

When I want to go fast I take the Caterham.......you have to spend a hell of a lot of money to get similar performance to that.

I have never owned a diesel and although I recognise the fact that they are torquey and economic.......I can't get past the fact that diesel is the fuel of satan:devil: :D
 
Straighten facts time.

1.2 is not the same engine found in the Panda or GP completely different head.

Salesman doesn't know what Fiat are doing with the prices in a few months.

1.3 is faster but the difference is minimal. Although the diesel will feel much faster just because of the way they deliver their power.

Fuel economy. Using the cheapest fuel stations around my area.
petrol £1.03 Diesel £1.10
Price difference between cars £1400
Fuel economy on the combined stat. 1.2 55.4MPG 1.3 67.3MPG

Now 4.55 litres in a gallon. so with a 7P per litre difference in the price of the more economical fuel. We need to save £1400 pounds in fuel for the premium of the diesel to break even.


Excuse my maths here. :eek:

10,000 miles will use 821.7 litres of fuel in the petrol costing £846.35
10,000 miles will use 676.13 litres of fuel in the diesel costing £743.74
so for every 10,000 miles you claw back £102.61

so the £1400 pounds difference is divided up by the 10,000 mile difference to give the amount of 10,000 chunks you would need to complete before you break even. which is 13.64 so this times 10,000 will give you the mileage you need to do to break even. :cool:


136,438 miles then after that diesel is cheaper. :)


Feel free to correct my maths I know I'm rubbish at it. :(
 
at the risk of upsetting people in to not being excited at getting there new 500 i totaly agree the diesel is better than the 1.2 in some aspects but the 1.2 is better in others and going on fiats own figures you can't deny they are VERY close in terms of overall performance / economy so if like me you'r getting a 1.2 or like others who go for the diesel enjoy the car, and love every time you drive it at the end of the day the car is great whatever engine it happens to have (y)
 
Hellcat said:
For as much as I love petrol engines - they've not really advanced much compared to the huge improvements in diesel technology. The 1.9 lump has gone from around 100hp for the Bravo TD of the 1990s to what will be nearly 200bhp for the anticipated bi-turbo multijet - all the time improving on sound and ecconomy. What do you get out of a 2.0 petrol now? Wasn't much more than the 150bhp available at the time of the Bravo.
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The improvements in diesles has been outstanding, however, the characteristics of diesels versus petrols is now what differentiates them rather than performance and quite different driving styles.

You have to compare similar technology though, my 2.0 Turbo petrol A3 produces 200bhp, and that is the luke warm one the S3 producing over 260bhp before re-mapping.

Lancers etc. can get to well over 300bhp out of a 2 litre with only one turbo :)

Riding a torque curve to just over 3000 rpm is typically the fastest way to make progress in a sports diesel. It just doesn't feel so much fun as working a petrol. The converse is for those baffled by why anyone would want to work hard at making progress and are thrilled by effortless low down pulling power.

Your choice, but the days of diesels (and also autos) being slower are long gone, it just comes down to preference.

Cheers
Baldrick
 
The Beast said:
Straighten facts time.

1.2 is not the same engine found in the Panda or GP completely different head.

Salesman doesn't know what Fiat are doing with the prices in a few months.

1.3 is faster but the difference is minimal. Although the diesel will feel much faster just because of the way they deliver their power.

Fuel economy. Using the cheapest fuel stations around my area.
petrol £1.03 Diesel £1.10
Price difference between cars £1400
Fuel economy on the combined stat. 1.2 55.4MPG 1.3 67.3MPG

Now 4.55 litres in a gallon. so with a 7P per litre difference in the price of the more economical fuel. We need to save £1400 pounds in fuel for the premium of the diesel to break even.


Excuse my maths here. :eek:

10,000 miles will use 821.7 litres of fuel in the petrol costing £846.35
10,000 miles will use 676.13 litres of fuel in the diesel costing £743.74
so for every 10,000 miles you claw back £102.61

so the £1400 pounds difference is divided up by the 10,000 mile difference to give the amount of 10,000 chunks you would need to complete before you break even. which is 13.64 so this times 10,000 will give you the mileage you need to do to break even. :cool:


136,438 miles then after that diesel is cheaper. :)


Feel free to correct my maths I know I'm rubbish at it. :(
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This is a fair analysis in theory Beast and your maths appear to be spot on. The point I would make, and very difficult to calculate, is the fact that diesel cars are usually bought to take on commuter journeys (not necessarily just long) that follow variable driving patterns. For example drivers take on changing traffic flows, joining or exiting motorways and all sorts of stop start situations. Now if you want to tackle this on a daily basis as efficiently and briskly as possible a diesel car will be your best friend. You'll spend a fortune on petrol and the break even will be met alot sooner than estimated with an oil burner.

Figures are one thing but reality is another;)
 
no crappy plugs & leads to change every year:)

oh & engines in general last longer...niall's doblo (see doblo section) gone around the world 12 times.........bout time he brought a sat nav if he's that lost;)
 
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