Not everybody is a boy racer, some of us have grown up. If you want a fast car buy a Maserati.

ensonricky said:

"Each to his/her own" or a rough translation, "I'm right".

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well actually I think the 1.2 is crap....but hey each to his/her own

Are you sure you don't mean crarp?

EDIT...ahh I see you mean in reference to gib1970

If I could afford the extra I would certainly go for the diesel. It's a great engine! I've not tested it in the 500 but have done in a Panda. Alas I can't afford the extra so the 1.2 will have to do. I've not tested a 1.2 500 so I really hope it's not crap like you say

nuovapanda - found you a photo of Cha Azure with the Sport wheels... looks nice I'll dig out some photos of the two-tone wheels later

Cheers for that, about those sidestrips, what do people think of them? I reckon they give a fussy look to the side but theres nowt worse than parking dings!

So, someone reckons the 1.2 is crap eh? Now Im worried, I found it brilliant in the new Panda but not good in Mk1 and 2 Puntos. Its daft that you cant try one out!
Just cant afford the diesel, but if the 1.2 is that bad then I dont want the car

nuovapanda said:

Cheers for that, about those sidestrips, what do people think of them? I reckon they give a fussy look to the side but theres nowt worse than parking dings!

So, someone reckons the 1.2 is crap eh? Now Im worried, I found it brilliant in the new Panda but not good in Mk1 and 2 Puntos. Its daft that you cant try one out!
Just cant afford the diesel, but if the 1.2 is that bad then I dont want the car

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Drove a 1.3mjt 500 a 1.2 grande punto & a 1.2 pop 500 (and we own a 1.2 panda at the mo) When we were looking to place our order. The grande punto was sooooo slow but the real revalation was........the 1.2 pop just seemed to go well & suited the 500's character.
Its not crap.......sorry I was worried about it,but we were truly impressed & went and ordered one.

Vospers in cornwall have a demo 1.2 pop so other dealerships must have there demo units due soon.

Yoshi

Thanks, my dealer didnt know when they were getting a 1.2
Im sure its fine, it says the figures are faster than the 1.2 Panda, but I have driven a few older Puntos and found them slow and horrible, the 1.1 Cinqs will leave them for dead.
I did love the 1.3 but its a rip off, look how much extra you pay for the 1.3 on the Panda for instance, its only around £800!

yoshi said:

Vospers in cornwall have a demo 1.2 pop so other dealerships must have there demo units due soon.

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Assuming they've actually ordered one, of course

The 1.2 is lighter than the 1.3 and 1.4, 865kgs v 930 for the 1.4 and 980 for the diesel.

I suspect the equivalent panda will be heavier as well. I certainly hope the 1.2 is fun to drive but won't find out until our dealers 1.2 arrives in a couple of weeks time.

When I am considering engine options I tend to compare power to weight figures.....

1.2 is 80bhp per ton
1.4 is 108bhp per ton
1.3 diesel is 77bhp per ton

Based on weight the 1.2 should handle the best, performance wise the 1.2 and 1.3 diesel should be similar although the added torque of the diesel will give it a different character. The 1.4 will be the quickest obviously.

Simon

I personally found the 1.2 nothing exciting,my fear would be wanting bit more power from it (being stuck with it for 3 years on finance & I do lot of motorway driving,loads of steep hills where I live) wethers when you jump in the 1.4 it totally different...fun factor.

Now if I lived in a big city then yes I would then consider the 1.2 due to constant stop/starting & the slight turbo lag on the 1.3 (not as bad as the GP).

nuovapanda said:

I did love the 1.3 but its a rip off, look how much extra you pay for the 1.3 on the Panda for instance, its only around £800!

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With the diesel 500 you also get a particulate filter which isn't present on the Panda (I think), hence the extra cost. But the filter makes it more environmentally friendly

I like all theses reassurances about the diesel; I was having doubts about it earlier...

The 1.4 Sport I drove seemed plenty eager bearing in mind it was losing 100bhp to my A3 2.0T. It had that fun factor of not necessarily feeling super quick but enjoying being hustled along. The whole cuteness doesn't give you the feeling it should be particularly sporty and feels on a test drive as if there will be the enjoyment of it feeling as if it performs beyond expectation if that makes sense.

From what I have read the 1.2 is possibly an even more classically Italian revvy engine and of course it represents more of a challenge to zip along which suits the character of the car. I haven't driven one though. We plumped for the 1.4 as we are replacing my wife's 147 2.0TS and didn't want to drop that much power.

Given Simon has a Caterham for real performance fun, driving a small engined little car beyond its cute city car appearance I believe would be appealling in addition to it being a sensible, cheap to run and surprisingly practical little chic car.

Baerius said:

I like all theses reassurances about the diesel; I was having doubts about it earlier...

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Well the whole James May "test" didn't help. I would be with him because I am an old petrol head that believes little Italian cars should be revved to near death daily! So the concept of diesel powered Alfas and Fiats just seems somehow wrong.

Of course those bought up on torquey diesels take a completely opposite view. So reviews can be misleading depending on preference.

For many the mileage in a 500 could not justify the diesel but the choice will be down to how they wish to drive it and there is no right answer!

Baldrick, you have hit the nail on the head. Some of the best fun I have had has been hustling small engined cars along the country lanes. With a low powered car you have to work harder to keep the momentum.......basically you brake as little as possible and aim to carry as much speed through the corners as possible which is why the car needs to handle respectably.

We use to have an old Panda but it was too soft and rolled way too much, more recently we had a Peugeot 106 which was generally driven hard with valves dancing on the bonnet as James May suggested in his 500 review.

I'm hoping the 1.2 500 offers something similar. I've never liked diesels although I can appreciate the torque and the fuel economy. I like something revvy.

baldrick500 said:

Well the whole James May "test" didn't help. I would be with him because I am an old petrol head that believes little Italian cars should be revved to near death daily! So the concept of diesel powered Alfas and Fiats just seems somehow wrong.

Of course those bought up on torquey diesels take a completely opposite view. So reviews can be misleading depending on preference.

For many the mileage in a 500 could not justify the diesel but the choice will be down to how they wish to drive it and there is no right answer!

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James May talks out of his a##e and has the opinion I had in the 1980's when it was probably true.

I was a confirmed petrolhead having owned 3 HF turbos and two integrale evos, one modded to 300bhp. However, on a trip to Torino in the late 90's we were driven around 54 up in a Brava that went like stink by a guy who worked for Maggiora. When I commented thast the car went well and asked him if it was a 2 litre turbo he replied "no, new 1.3 diesel that I'm testing" I couldn't believe it and from that day on my mind was far more open to diesels.

I now drive a 156 SW 1.9m-jet, which I love because of the mid range. Previously owned a 1.3 m-jet Punto which is a great little unit and that's what I'm going for in my 5oo, for the economy and the torque and because I love driving that engine.

Will probably get it boosted up once it's run in though to get it nearer to it's potential

Nero500 said:

I now drive a 156 SW 1.9m-jet, which I love because of the mid range. Previously owned a 1.3 m-jet Punto which is a great little unit and that's what I'm going for in my 5oo, for the economy and the torque and because I love driving that engine.

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It is a whole feel thing though rather than outright performance. I owned a 156 V6 and test drove a 159 1.9JTDm. Maybe not a fair comparison but the 1.9 was the only demo. I really couldn't fault the performance, especially making an allowance for the smaller capacity. However, it just didn't feel like an Alfa to me. I know old fashioned prejudice and all that. I could see why people like them but not for me.

The same with the 500. I go back far enough to remember little Fiat 850 coupes buzzing along. I am sure 500 multijets will zip around Milan just like the old cars (probably even quicker!) but a small revvy petrol just finishes off the package for me.

All personal preference and the good news is both petrol & diesels seem fine engines in the 500.

baldrick500 said:

It is a whole feel thing though rather than outright performance. I owned a 156 V6 and test drove a 159 1.9JTDm. Maybe not a fair comparison but the 1.9 was the only demo. I really couldn't fault the performance, especially making an allowance for the smaller capacity. However, it just didn't feel like an Alfa to me. I know old fashioned prejudice and all that. I could see why people like them but not for me.

The same with the 500. I go back far enough to remember little Fiat 850 coupes buzzing along. I am sure 500 multijets will zip around Milan just like the old cars (probably even quicker!) but a small revvy petrol just finishes off the package for me.

All personal preference and the good news is both petrol & diesels seem fine engines in the 500.

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I spent a week in a 159 1.9m-jet in Italy and because the 159 is so much heavier than the 156 I have to say the 159 felt pretty sluggish compared.

I know what you mean about the old days and yes I will call you old fashioned because things move on and in 20 years time these will be the good old days too.