Hi all,

Question about speed ratings on tires for the 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth:

I'm looking to get replacement all-season tires (205/40R17 XL) and was told by a sales rep at a tire center that I can't use a tire with a V speed rating because my car is a W speed rating.

I can't find any literature on tire speed ratings in my Owner's Manual (after a cursory search). I'm not sure if he was B.S.ing me because he just didn't want to order the tires or if this is a very serious tire manufacturer / auto manufacturer liability & safety limitation.

I understand the rationale behind speed ratings and braking distance and all - but as this is a town commuter car, I don't foresee ever going 150mph - ever. I'm not the original owner and have no idea what the original factory tires were.

Can someone point me to Fiat literature that states the tire speed ratings for their various car models?

Thanks so much!

T

Looking at the Mitchelin UK site then for a 2013 Abarth 145bhp Tjet they recommend the following:-

205/40 R17 84 W

Thanks! I saw the same on Michelin US - but I didn’t know if Fiat is pushing for a W speed rating or it’s the tire manufacturers.

Does anyone have a US manuf they can recommend? So far I see Kumho has 84W in my size, but not sure how hard-wearing Kumho is in all-weather tires.

tmhayden said:

Thanks! I saw the same on Michelin US - but I didn’t know if Fiat is pushing for a W speed rating or it’s the tire manufacturers.



Does anyone have a US manuf they can recommend? So far I see Kumho has 84W in my size, but not sure how hard-wearing Kumho is in all-weather tires.

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What is a tire speed rating? Is that how fast you can go for the tire falls off the car???

Rocco Reviews said:

What is a tire speed rating? Is that how fast you can go for the tire falls off the car???

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The maximum permitted speed stated by the tyre manufacturer whether the car is capable of going that fast or not, there are other factors to include too like load etc.

It's not about weather you ever go at TOP speed , it's about what the top speed of the car is theoretically capable of traveling. If manufacturer states a particular speed rating for tyres then you can't choose to go lower speed rating.
You can choose to go higher , if possible.
Yes it is about liability.

jackwhoo said:

It's not about weather you ever go at TOP speed , it's about what the top speed of the car is theoretically capable of traveling. If manufacturer states a particular speed rating for tyres then you can't choose to go lower speed rating.
You can choose to go higher , if possible.
Yes it is about liability.

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It is actually. The rating means that the tyre is capable of travel at the rated speed for a given time. Hence you’re allowed to go down a rating or two with winter tyres, but your top speed is then limited.

306maxi said:

It is actually. The rating means that the tyre is capable of travel at the rated speed for a given time. Hence you’re allowed to go down a rating or two with winter tyres, but your top speed is then limited.

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I hadn't considered winter tyres , sorry.

What I wrote only applies to normal , summer tyres, and is only what I understand to be the case in the UK.
It may also apply to original poster but,
You must check whatever local, state, national or other laws apply to you.

In the UK insurance companies would take a dim view of fitting tyres with a speed rating below the max speed of your car

jackwhoo said:

I hadn't considered winter tyres , sorry.

What I wrote only applies to normal , summer tyres, and is only what I understand to be the case in the UK.
It may also apply to original poster but,
You must check whatever local, state, national or other laws apply to you.

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For summer tyres, tyres with a speed rating lower than that specified by the manufacturer should never be used.



It is different in the case of winter tyres. The speed rating for snow tyres and rules for its selection are defined by EU legislation (Directive 92/23/EEC). According to these regulations, winter tyres may have their speed rating lower than recommended by the manufacturer, but not lower than index Q (Q = 160 km/h).

That is in UK and test of europe

chris3234 said:

In the UK insurance companies would take a dim view of fitting tyres with a speed rating below the max speed of your car

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As would the police in UK and rest of europe

I didn't get into the speed rating of temporary space saver spare wheels

chris3234 said:

In the UK insurance companies would take a dim view of fitting tyres with a speed rating below the max speed of your car

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They can take whatever view they want, it won’t stand up in a court of law if they choose to be idiots about it. If you look up what the speed rating means then they will realise why any sort of refusal to pay out on a claim that happened in a situation where the speed of the vehicle didn’t exceed the rated speed for the tyre is not going to ever fly in court.

Just because they can write something into a contract doesn’t make the contract enforceable.

Source: worked for a car company for 3 years and have a healthy knowledge of homologation and regulation vis a vis cars.

306maxi said:

They can take whatever view they want, it won’t stand up in a court of law if they choose to be idiots about it. If you look up what the speed rating means then they will realise why any sort of refusal to pay out on a claim that happened in a situation where the speed of the vehicle didn’t exceed the rated speed for the tyre is not going to ever fly in court.

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:yeahthat:

To pass an MOT in the UK, the tyres only need to have a speed rating that's good for 70mph, whatever the maximum speed of the vehicle.

Tyre fitters may take a different view; it's their professional liability that's at stake and they do have the right to refuse to fit a tyre that they believe may not be suitable for the car.

Some take this to ridiculous extremes. My local tyre dealer once refused to put a T rated tyre on a base model old style Ka, just because the existing tyres happened to be H rated. :bang:

The Ka has a 60HP engine and is (theoretically) just about capable of 90mph downhill. T rated tyres are good for 118mph.

jrkitching said:

:yeahthat:

To pass an MOT in the UK, the tyres only need to have a speed rating that's good for 70mph, whatever the maximum speed of the vehicle.

Tyre fitters may take a different view; it's their professional liability that's at stake and they do have the right to refuse to fit a tyre that they believe may not be suitable for the car.

Some take this to ridiculous extremes. My local tyre dealer once refused to put a T rated tyre on a base model old style Ka, just because the existing tyres happened to be H rated. :bang:

The Ka has a 60HP engine and is (theoretically) just about capable of 90mph downhill. T rated tyres are good for 118mph.

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Exactly. The great thing is that if you take loose rims in they have no idea what you’re fitting the tyres to, plus they can’t mash your sill or over torque your nuts/bolts.

I’m all for fitting tyres that are the correct rating, but I just wanted to point out that an insurance company can’t say diddly about a speed rating.

My BMW is currently on H rated tyres winter tyres that are good for 130mph, but shock horror the car is capable of 138mph!

On the cars I worked with, if you fitted winter tyres, or tyres of a different size then you selected that option in the TPMS menu and the car would warn you of the relevant speed limit for the tyres fitted.

306maxi said:

Exactly. The great thing is that if you take loose rims in they have no idea what you’re fitting the tyres to, plus they can’t mash your sill or over torque your nuts/bolts.

I’m all for fitting tyres that are the correct rating, but I just wanted to point out that an insurance company can’t say diddly about a speed rating.

My BMW is currently on H rated tyres winter tyres that are good for 130mph, but shock horror the car is capable of 138mph!

On the cars I worked with, if you fitted winter tyres, or tyres of a different size then you selected that option in the TPMS menu and the car would warn you of the relevant speed limit for the tyres fitted.

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This does not take into account construction and use regulations.

And does not apply to many other European countries where it is illegal to fit tyres Or use tyres with a lower speed rating than fitted originally by the vehicle manufacturer.

None of the above including my posts apply to the USA.

jackwhoo said:

This does not take into account construction and use regulations.

And does not apply to many other European countries where it is illegal to fit tyres Or use tyres with a lower speed rating than fitted originally by the vehicle manufacturer.

None of the above including my posts apply to the USA.

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Illegal to fit tyres? What do they use to stop sparks coming off the wheels then?

It’s also not unusual for cars to roll off the line with different tyres with different speed ratings depending on what tyres the factory are fitting on that day. Things like tyre size and load rating are important. Speed ratings not so much. As an example, my BMW can come with V rated Michelins or W rated Bridgestones or Dunlops. Tyres will always be wildly over rated for the top speed on OE fitments to account for people removing limiters, modifying cars or doing engine swaps.

I’d be surprised if any national regulations stipulate that insurance will be invalid if the wrong speed rating is used on a tyre. In Germany for instance if a hire car is running winter tyres that are t-rated, then the car will carry a warning that they’re only rated to 190kph. Happy to be proven wrong on that of course.

Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone that they should buy tyres that are lower rated than the manufacturer states. But unless you’re running quicker than the tyres are rated to, nobody’s going to care and if they do it won’t stand up in court.

The hand book should have a little section at the back talking about wheel sizes and tyres generally in that it should give the speed rating.

306maxi said:

Illegal to fit tyres? What do they use to stop sparks coming off the wheels then?

It’s also not unusual for cars to roll off the line with different tyres with different speed ratings depending on what tyres the factory are fitting on that day. Things like tyre size and load rating are important. Speed ratings not so much. As an example, my BMW can come with V rated Michelins or W rated Bridgestones or Dunlops. Tyres will always be wildly over rated for the top speed on OE fitments to account for people removing limiters, modifying cars or doing engine swaps.

I’d be surprised if any national regulations stipulate that insurance will be invalid if the wrong speed rating is used on a tyre. In Germany for instance if a hire car is running winter tyres that are t-rated, then the car will carry a warning that they’re only rated to 190kph. Happy to be proven wrong on that of course.

Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone that they should buy tyres that are lower rated than the manufacturer states. But unless you’re running quicker than the tyres are rated to, nobody’s going to care and if they do it won’t stand up in court.

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many other European countries where it is illegal to fit tyres Or use tyres with a lower speed rating than fitted originally by the vehicle manufacturer.

Really you read that as it is illegal to fit tyres?

Rather than : illegal to fit tyres with speed rating lower than originally fitted by manufacturer or use tyres with speed rating lower than originally fitted by manufacture.

If so I give up.


The police in other European countries where it is illegal to fit tyres otherwise than in accordance with their laws do very much care about this because it is an easy on the spot fine for them to impose and or vehicle impound.

Quite clearly snow tyres are a special case and special rules will apply.
It does not give any one carte Blanche to say oh well the manufacturer and laws of my country say I can use snow tyres with a lower speed rating so I'm going to buy summer tyres with the same speed rating and I will get away with it and save some money.

I'm not going to look up the relevant construction and use regulations regarding tyre speed ratings and load ratings. If they apply and you contravene them and meet a vehicle inspector or police officer who is keen then it will very much stand up in court.

This is frankly ridiculous and I will go no further with it.

jackwhoo said:

I hadn't considered winter tyres , sorry.



What I wrote only applies to normal , summer tyres, and is only what I understand to be the case in the UK.

It may also apply to original poster but,

You must check whatever local, state, national or other laws apply to you.

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Is it a UK thing?