I'd like to know if anyone has driven both an automatic and manual Fiat 500. I test drove a Pop and Sport, both automatics. I didn't quite understand the Sport mode at the time. I think I was in normal mode most of the time.

Acceleration was alright. Not brisk from a stop. On the freeway I used the manual slide shifter thing(Auto Stick driver-interactive manual control) on the automatic. At one point I was able to go from fast, maybe 55mph, to faster quickly when I dropped it to 4th gear. It was my last available moment to do that and I finally was able to see some brisk performance from the vehicle. I wanted to see if the vehicle can do this for practical situations like going into a faster lane and needing to keep up and entering a freeway from a stop at a meter light.

I should have done the test drives in a less busy hour. It was the middle of the day in Costa Mesa, California.

So anyways, I haven't driven a manual stick shift car before. Just a manual shift motorcycle. A friend will teach me how on her manual car.

But for now, has anyone compared the manual Fiat 500 to using the Auto Stick driver-interactive manual control in the automatic Fiat 500? Does going manual in the automatic compare to the true manual Fiat 500?

I see six different things to compare, if I have this correct:

1. Automatic Fiat 500 normal mode D gear(automatic drive)
2. Automatic Fiat 500 normal mode driver-interactive manual control
3. Automatic Fiat 500 SPORT mode D gear (automatic drive)
4. Automatic Fiat 500 SPORT mode driver-interactive manual control
5. Manual Fiat 500 normal mode
6. Manual Fiat 500 SPORT mode

I assume using the driver-interactive manual control in an Automatic Fiat 500 in SPORT mode is different than normal mode. Or is it not? I assume 4 ways to drive the Automatic Fiat 500. Or if SPORT mode can't be used with the driver-interactive manual control, then 3 way(D gear normal, D gear SPORT, manual control).

I do know the true manual Fiat 500 has normal and SPORT mode that adjusts shifting/performance.

Anyways, I don't want to repeat things here. I wanted to know if Automatic manual control compares to true Manual in the Fiat 500. In terms of shift gears and getting performance out of the vehicle. Or is the true Manual Fiat 500 still a better performer than the Automatic?

And finally, has anyone done number 3, Automatic D gear in Sport mode? I'll have to test drive trying this again to see if that helps in going from a stop.

Sorry if this post drags on. I'm trying to decide if the Automatic will be just as good or comparable by practical means to the Manual, or if I'm better off with the Manual.

Minimalist said:

...I'm trying to decide if the Automatic will be just as good or comparable by practical means to the Manual, or if I'm better off with the Manual.

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The 'Euro' model 500 has a robotised manual gearbox (Dualogic like the 'old' selespeed). Only the North American model has a true automatic.
There have been reports of a 4-5mpg penalty with the Automatic over the manual. That might be a factor in shifting gear yourself if you were looking for to make the 500 more economic. Plus you can go for some of the 'cheaper' models in the 500 range.

It's not the MPG I want to compare. I'm okay with the Automatic Fiat 500's MPG rating. What I wanted to compare was the acceleration performance between the Automatic and Manual in the Fiat 500. And if acceleration and performance was comparable and closely matched using the manual feature in the Automatic 500 and using the true Manual 500. Or if there is a difference in acceleration, power, etc.

Right now I'm more concerned with being able to accelerate enough for practical situations like getting into a faster lane and needing to speed up as I'm doing that. And entering a freeway from a stop. In California, sometimes we enter the freeway but have to stop at the end of the ramp when the meter light is red. When it turns green, then we can go, one car per green light. And we have some distance but not a lot to take off from a stop and have to speed up to merge onto the freeway. I wanted to be sure I'll be okay in situations like that.

Minimalist said:

Right now I'm more concerned with being able to accelerate enough for practical situations like getting into a faster lane and needing to speed up as I'm doing that. And entering a freeway from a stop. In California, sometimes we enter the freeway but have to stop at the end of the ramp when the meter light is red. When it turns green, then we can go, one car per green light. And we have some distance but not a lot to take off from a stop and have to speed up to merge onto the freeway. I wanted to be sure I'll be okay in situations like that.

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We don't have these engine & transmission options in Europe so it's only possible for me to comment in general terms. Having driven a goodly variety of both manual & automatic cars for over 40 years, it's been my experience that automatics work best on larger cars and that a manual box is better on a small town car like the 500. I'd expect the manual car to accelerate faster and, perhaps more importantly, to give you greater control over its performance - but surely the sensible thing for you to do is to test drive both variants back-to-back in the same conditions you plan to use the car. That should establish which variant will be most suitable for your needs.

Yes, I should test drive both next time to compare. My friend is going to teach me how to drive manual tomorrow. She may still do the test drive for me while I ride and observe since it may take a while until I have the skill to drive manual smoothly. I can get her opinion since she's been driving stick shift vehicles all her life(started with a manual tractor at the age of 8!)

And loveshandbags, I wasn't blowing off your reply. If it looked like that, I didn't mean for it to. And you do have a good point about the MPG rating. It is less by the amount you stated for the Automatic. More for the Manual.

Minimalist said:

And loveshandbags, I wasn't blowing off your reply. If it looked like that, I didn't mean for it to. And you do have a good point about the MPG rating. It is less by the amount you stated for the Automatic. More for the Manual.

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It's perhaps more of an issue for us here. I just refuelled my 500 yesterday & paid the equivalent of $8.42 per US gallon & I suspect LH is paying even more than that. Not sure how that compares with the current price in CA.

Where I live in California, it's around $4.50 per gallon. About a 10 or 12 cent varying between the 87, 89, and 91 grades. It's climbing up and may reach above $5 per gallon, U.S. currency.

I guess I still have some of the American mindset of not caring that much about gas mileage but I should. The Automatic Fiat would still be a relief compared to my truck. My truck is rated at 16 mpg city, 20 mpg highway.

jrkitching said:

It's perhaps more of an issue for us here. I just refuelled my 500 yesterday & paid the equivalent of $8.42 per US gallon & I suspect LH is paying even more than that. Not sure how that compares with the current price in CA.

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Litre of petrol here is €1.679. In US gallons (3.79lt) that works out at $8.44 or in Euro gallons (4.53lt) that's $10.09 so it's around twice the price of the States. Greece & Italy have even higher prices.

jrkitching said:

...it's been my experience that automatics work best on larger cars and that a manual box is better on a small town car like the 500. I'd expect the manual car to accelerate faster...

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:yeahthat:

Minimalist said:

..Right now I'm more concerned with being able to accelerate enough for practical situations like getting into a faster lane and needing to speed up as I'm doing that. And entering a freeway from a stop. In California, sometimes we enter the freeway but have to stop at the end of the ramp when the meter light is red...

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I can identify with that. My dad has a newish miserable LHD automatic Opel Corsa 1.2 in Spain and to get on the motorway from where he lives in the Winter it's a fairly hairy affair trying to accelerate up to speed. It's pedal to the metal. Never like cars with small engines and automatics. Always felt that the torque converter took a lot of power from what gets to the wheels.

The 1.4L engine in your 500 is similar to our discountinued 1.4 in the European 500 and was never found wanting off the line giving out 100HP. It gives out a quite a bit more power than our commonly used 1.2 69bhp engines. In gear acceleration on the 1.4 could struggle a bit if you were more than 2 up. The Automatic in the US has 6 gears and when I looked at the ratios it has a long 6th gear so it is not close ratio like the European one. Looking at a review on Automatic U.S. 500 it didn't appear to struggle on the motorways and does not appear to have the same loss of power as in other makes e.g. Chrysler Neon. As already suggested a back to back test might be the best option. Noticed too that the Automatic option at $1,000 is available on the cheaper Pop & Sport model. From a previous poster Macdebbie (Click here) I got the impression that it was only available on the more expensive Lounge model.

Good luck with the lessons on using the stick and keep us posted on progress.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/FIAT_500/Performance/
The Aisin six-speed offers AutoStick for manual override and was responsive enough to quell any concerns we may have had about it numbing or damping the little car's verve. Actually, with closer ratio gaps the Aisin might just be better suited to all forms of driving.
Still, the light clutch and positive shifter action in the manual-equipped 500 is a pleasure to use, and it isn't too onerous even in heavy traffic." –Edmunds

Thanks loveshandbags for that information. And I'll check out the link to the post and the rankingsandreviews article.

And while I hope the Fiat 500 in the U.S. is good all around in traffic, I won't be too picky about it. I don't expect it to match the performance of my mom's nice V6 Honda Accord. When I drive her car, speeding up to enter a faster lane is like moving my computer mouse up. The car just does it. I'm not looking for the Fiat 500 to do it with that much ease. And I don't cut into unreasonable situations. There are plenty of times when I drove mom's car and I chose to not enter a faster lane because the speed difference was too great.(motorists in the faster lane in this case shouldn't speed too much when they're next to a lane that's crawling at 5mph, but here in California people do it anyways!)

I can understand some adapting with the Fiat 500 and speeding up isn't always the best solution to situations. Awareness and sound judgement goes a long way. I just don't want a hairy situation like what you described.

I'd assume the full automatic 500 shouldnt be too much slower than the manual. Torque converter automatic small cars are very popular in Australia and i've drive 1.3l engines with 4 speed autos and they're okay. Although australia only has the Dualogic/Selespeed automated manual so i can't comment on the 500. I'd personally go for the manual anyday, but i suppose the acceleration will depend on how fast you change gear? Torque converter autos arent the quickest, but a driver can be very quick with a manual so it depends?

But you're lucky you atleast get a decent auto in the US, after having a dualogic, i'd rather a manual over any automatic/automated gearbox.

You might want to check UTube to see videos of the two shows they did on the 500. One was a manual transmission and the second was an automatic. The 0-60 and quarter mile times were very interesting. The manual was slightly faster from 0-to 60, but the automatic "ate the manual for breakfast" when it came to quarter mile times and speed, being significantly faster. The reason may be the advantage of a 6 speed automatic vs. a 5 speed manual.

Minimalist said:

Thanks loveshandbags for that information. And I'll check out the link to the post and the rankingsandreviews article.

And while I hope the Fiat 500 in the U.S. is good all around in traffic, I won't be too picky about it. I don't expect it to match the performance of my mom's nice V6 Honda Accord. When I drive her car, speeding up to enter a faster lane is like moving my computer mouse up. The car just does it. I'm not looking for the Fiat 500 to do it with that much ease. And I don't cut into unreasonable situations. There are plenty of times when I drove mom's car and I chose to not enter a faster lane because the speed difference was too great.(motorists in the faster lane in this case shouldn't speed too much when they're next to a lane that's crawling at 5mph, but here in California people do it anyways!)

I can understand some adapting with the Fiat 500 and speeding up isn't always the best solution to situations. Awareness and sound judgement goes a long way. I just don't want a hairy situation like what you described.

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and don't forget the fun factor which is "massive" in a manual car of this type

It's too bad you guys don't have the Twinair in the States, not sure why it didn't make it there yet but mine merges into traffic with zero problems.

My friend bought a manual Pop and OMG it is awesome. I rode passenger and with two people in the car, it has no problems on the 405 freeway here in southern California. No problems on the take off. No problems coming out of right turns and catch up to speed. She finds the weight and size of the car so fun and maneuverable. And riding it, it feels a a lot zippier than the automatic's I test drove.

I meant us two in the car, not us and two other people. Just two people total. If performance is affected by the weight of four people, I'm not too concerned about that. If I get a Fiat, I'm removing the rear seats to discourage that anyways(I've had too much trouble over the years from bad passengers). I was very happy with how my friend's Fiat did with us two in it.

MB Don said:

...The manual was slightly faster from 0-to 60, but the automatic "ate the manual for breakfast" when it came to quarter mile times and speed, being significantly faster.

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Minimalist said:

My friend bought a manual Pop and OMG it is awesome...it feels a a lot zippier than the automatic's I test drove.

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Bit of a contradiction in these posts - hopefully we'll know shortly...

I cant comment as i have the EURO auto box which is completely different. Did you try driving the auto box in manual mode? Was it comfortable? If not i guess you can learn stick shift as yes its definatley a stick type of car. If it was a diesel or twinair euro style with torque down low you would be fine with a full auto. The 1.4 engine begs to be thrashed and doesnt have anything low down, so i do not think it is a good auto car.

ahmett said:

I cant comment as i have the EURO auto box which is completely different. Did you try driving the auto box in manual mode? Was it comfortable? If not i guess you can learn stick shift as yes its definatley a stick type of car. If it was a diesel or twinair euro style with torque down low you would be fine with a full auto. The 1.4 engine begs to be thrashed and doesnt have anything low down, so i do not think it is a good auto car.

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It's really comparing apples with oranges though, because even the 1.4 engine in the USA is different - better than our version because it has variable valve timing (Multiair). That may not make any difference on paper (power and torque figures look much the same) but I expect the torque curve is improved and it should therefore accelerate better at low revs than the conventional non-Multiair 1.4. It might therefore suit an automatic better than the European-version 1.4.

Since the automatic has six gears, there probably isn't much performance penalty at all, but the torque converter 'slipping', as it is designed to, will give a slightly sluggish impression as you first move off. The fuel consumption figures bear out this 'slipping', but I read somewhere that 0-60 times are the same or very similar.

I've gone for a Dualogic robotized-manual myself (after years of Selespeed driving), but I accept these are an acquired taste and for most auto-drivers, the six-speed conventional auto is the best design - much smoother.

-Alex

Hi,

About the performance in 0-60 between the five speed manual and the 6 speed automatic, from what I've been able to glean is that the automatic is about three seconds slower to 60 mph. I feel that there are a LOT of decisions you need to make other than the basic 0-60 comparison.

I have a Jeep Patriot with the 6 speed automatic. Like the automatic in the 500, you can shift manually throughout the gears(sans clutch pedal) or stick with the automatic function. Shifting a five speed manual is a lot of fun unless you are stuck in heavy stop and go traffic, then it gets to be tiring having to push the clutch pedal all the time. My wife hates a manual transmission, although I trained her to drive on my 62' Corvair Monza with a four speed stick.

I really like the option of having the car run under full automatic if my wife wants to drive it and then make use of the auto-stick for myself.

I suggest that if you really want the maximum performance, then it's the five speed stick. If you do a lot of city stop and go driving, the automatic may be your best choice, it's really up to you.

Good luck!