An article taken from a classic bike mag i receive....
i am sure someone more fuel knowledgeable will be able to condense it into two sentences....


After an extensive consultation process, the Department for Transport has announced that they will legislate to introduce E10 petrol as the standard 95-octane petrol grade by 1 September 2021. They will also require the higher-octane 97+ ‘Super’ grades to remain E5 to provide protection for owners of older vehicles. This product will be designated as the ‘Protection’ grade.
The introduction of the 95-octane E10 grade and the maintenance of the Super E5 protection grade will be reviewed by the Government after 5 years to ensure they remain appropriate to the needs of the market. In relation to the E5 protection grade, such a review will examine market developments over the period. HM Government have sought to reassure FBHVC members and historic vehicle owners that, without a suitable alternative becoming available, it is highly likely the Super E5 protection grade would continue to be available. Filling stations that stock 2 grades of petrol and supply at least
one million litres of fuel in total each year, will need to ensure one product is the Super E5 protection grade. While not all filling stations meet these criteria, almost all towns across the UK will have a filling station that supplies the ‘Super’ grade and currently one major retailer, a national supermarket group, has committed to offer the product. The main exception to this is in certain parts of the Highlands, north and west coast of Scotland, which will be covered by an exemption process and allowed to continue to market the 95 -
octane E5 grade.
The Federation therefore recommends that all vehicles produced before 2000 and some vehicles from the early 2000s that are considered non-compatible with E10 should use the Super E5 Protection grade where the Ethanol content is limited to a maximum of 5%. To check compatibility of vehicles produced since 2000, we recommend using the new online E10 compatibility checker: www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol It should be noted that some Super E5 Protection grade products do not contain Ethanol as the E5 designation is for fuels containing up to 5% Ethanol. Product availability varies by manufacturer and geographical location and enthusiasts should check the situation in
their location.

Looking at the Esso web-page, it would seem that most Esso garages that supply the 'Super 97' fuel do not have any Ethanol in this grade of fuel---check what the situation is in your area. Off the top of my head, the West-country and parts of Scotland are the only areas that DO have Ethanol in the very highest grade. If in doubt, put the 97 octane fuel in your car PLUS the relevant 'anti-ethanol' gunge.

I just filled up with my first tank of E10. We got back from Sainsbury's OK.

Has anything rotted away yet?
Has your power halved?
Were there any fumes when you started filling up?

fiat500 said:

I just filled up with my first tank of E10. We got back from Sainsbury's OK.

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Hi Peter, It will be interesting to see how your engine withstands E10, do you add anything?? As Tom@thehobbler knows only too well Ethanol can cause significant damage to the cylinder head pocket and valves. maybe run it for a few hundred miles and then whip the head off for a look-see ???????
Ian.

Bigvtwin996 said:

Has anything rotted away yet?
Has your power halved?
Were there any fumes when you started filling up?

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!. Only my courgettes.
2. Still the fastest Fiat 500F for miles around.
3. Yes, but enough of my personal problem.

Bleeding Knuckles said:

Hi Peter, It will be interesting to see how your engine withstands E10, do you add anything?? As Tom@thehobbler knows only too well Ethanol can cause significant damage to the cylinder head pocket and valves. maybe run it for a few hundred miles and then whip the head off for a look-see ???????
Ian.

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Hi Ian.
I stopped using additives when, having used them, I blew out a valve seat on the original 499cc engine.
The current engine is a 594cc with a brand new head and valves and has done 5,000 miles on E5 without problems.
I did 21,000 miles on a rebuilt 652cc engine just the same and it went into storage still running well.
All the fuel pipes are new and I have a proper fuel return setup.
I'm definitely not worried about water damage to any internal parts as the engine rarely gets a chance to sit idle for long.
The fuel pump possibly doesn't have a diaphragm made from modern materials and the carburettor doesn't have a modern, plastic float; so they're the areas I'll be watching.
I learned long ago that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is one of the wisest sayings when it comes to cars; so the head stays put unless the horror stories come true.
I will just carry on regardless as I always do.

can you get it on a weighbridge and then weight it again in 6 months and see if it starts dissolving.....

Bigvtwin996 said:

can you get it on a weighbridge and then weight t again in 6 months and see if it starts dissolving.....

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I make up for any weight losses with every winter overhaul due to the extra bits of replacement steel welded in and the additional layers of paint and Waxoyl which follow that. We're about to halve the weight when I get rid of all the rallying equipment.

Here in the States high-ethanol corrosion has been a cruel reality for years. Carburetor rebuilds are almost inevitable in machinery sitting with fuel over the winter.


I'm very mindful of that when it goes to cars, but it's easy to forget lawn mowers, chain saws, pressure washers etc. This is the origin of the Spring Carburetor Rebuild ritual.

Once I left a steering knuckle soaking in standard pump-grade gasoline, forgot about it and went on vacation. When I came back it looked like it's been sitting in a field for a decade.

So I believe one should take ethanol very seriously, not only in one's favorite drinks.

The somewhat illogical reasoning behind E10 fuel is that as 10% of it is not 'oil', but 'bio' we are helping to save the planet. The illogical part is that (a) an engine is less economical on fuel with a large percentage of ethanol, so you end up using MORE fuel and (b) crops are being grown to provide the ethanol, instead of being grown to feed the world. The only people coming out on top are the government on 'fuel tax income' as more fuel is consumed, and the oil companies because more fuel is required due to its lower efficiency!

Methanol is the way to go! Ask any 500-racer.

I think that you will find that it is Ethanol, NOT Methanol that Indy cars use--85% to 15% petrol.

Tom, not those 500s - they're way too new for me! I was thinking of the F3 500s from the 1950s with the Norton, JAP and Triumph twins.


To your point about fuel consumption, the carburetor jets are the size of sewage pipes to run enough methanol to the motor. But you can end up with scary efficient combustion, some of the engines are cool to the touch when running. The methanol will "eat" carburetors like it's potato chips, so one has to run some regular fuel through after each race

I'm interested in this subject.

My 72 500 doesn't seem to like running on super (99RON) but prefers it's common all garden 95RON. On super I found it was hesitant on hard acceleration (similar to the feeling where the car is over choked or using too much fuel). Replaced fuel with normal 95RON and it seemed to run fine.

I worry is that E5 is now going to only be avaliable as super 99RON. so my 500 is not going to like it. For those running E10 already, I'd be interested to hear of your experience over the last few months.

Aah! THOSE 500s---great little cars, that have more than passing relationship with our own pride and joys. When Cooper built the first 500s, he used Topolino front suspension at both ends---so should you call them 'Cooiats' or 'Fiapers'?

Tom, I like the ring of Flapper.

Cursed Auto-correct! "Fiaper" not "Flapper".

Or how about "Coopolino"?

Coopolino----I like that, good one!

the hobbler said:

The somewhat illogical reasoning behind E10 fuel is that as 10% of it is not 'oil', but 'bio' we are helping to save the planet. The illogical part is that (a) an engine is less economical on fuel with a large percentage of ethanol, so you end up using MORE fuel and (b) crops are being grown to provide the ethanol, instead of being grown to feed the world. The only people coming out on top are the government on 'fuel tax income' as more fuel is consumed, and the oil companies because more fuel is required due to its lower efficiency!

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Actually you have it sort of backwards. Ethanol was really started as a farm subsidy for US corn growers. At the time they were growing so much corn they couldn't sell it fast enough and it rotted in silos. Rather than face a new reality someone cooked up the idea of ethanol which as you pointed out really doesn't help the environment.

My experience is it works fine if you run your engine regularly. If anything is going to be sitting for a while I try to find ethanol free. I always run all my vehicles with 1 tank of ethanol free and then top up again with same before I store them for the winter. Haven't had any major issues by doing that.