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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Hmm, Putting "Stationed" and "JumpJet" together could we link "Petuxent" as well? That's where my son in law was.
That's the one... aka Pax River.

Ok... here are some teardown pics. So far, everything is looking good, and some initial measurements seem well in the box. I'm waiting on a honing tool on order to hone the barrels, then recheck the measurements, but pre-hone, everything looks nice and tight, so I'm hopeful for the short block. I plan on doing a little head work regardless. Once I get a 32mm socket, I'll pull the rest of it apart so I can hot-tank clean it and start putting it back together.

Couple questions... what are the allen-keyed plugs in the block? There seem to be 3 around the timing housing/oil pump and 2-3 more on the sides of the block/inside by the cam. Most are highlighted in the pics, but all but one are rounded out, so if I want to pull them, I'll need to extract them and get new ones. Is that necessary or what?

Thanks!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Everything seems to be pretty well OK. Phew! The aluminium plugs are (I think) casting plugs---they are screwed in. The trick is to (gently) hammer in the nearest, next size up, 'imperial' allen key as they easily deform. I would not take them out until you have their replacements! I tend to leave them in.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

I believe those plugs are there to cover the holes needed in the manufacturing process / drilling then plugged and not intended to be removable which is why they are so tight. The thread is M12 x 1.5. You can get small sump plugs in this size if you get yours out.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post
That's the one... aka Pax River.

Ok... here are some teardown pics. So far, everything is looking good, and some initial measurements seem well in the box.
Yup, Pax River, indeed! I'm going to pm you shortly if that's OK? I was chatting to my son in law last night and he said the "Aero community" is a pretty small one so if you are a Brit at Petuxant you may well know him, or know of him. Anyway I'll try to get the time to do it by the end of today.

Regarding your engine. It is looking pretty good visually isn't it. Hope your measurements come in on spec.

Probably the biggest and most involved rebuild I did at home was the Ambassador which I bought very cheap from another dealer because, although it's body was in excellent order, it had a serious gearbox problem which ended up in a complete rebuild of the box (luckily very doable on the garage floor with not too many parts needed as the problem was due to someone who didn't know what he, maybe she? was doing, having been in there before me) Of course the Ambassador power unit was like a great big Mini with the gearbox in the sump. So, as I had access to the bottom end with the gearbox removed and as i fancied I heard a very slight knock when the engine was running I pulled all the bottom end bearing caps. I was amazed to find almost new bearing shells all round. The mains were fine but one of the big end caps had been put on back to front so when you looked closely there was a very slight offset between the rod and cap (ie there was a step where the cap and rod meets) Reversing the cap so it assembled as it should appeared visually to solve that problem but the soft bearing metal had wiped out on the journal and scored it. I took the shaft and con rod/piston down to George Browns engineering on The Shore at Leith for them to check out. Their recommendation was to take the big end journals to undersize and asked me to get the shells before they ground the journals - I was very impressed by this as it ensured I wasn't left with an undersize shaft I couldn't get shells for. They said the con rod was fine. They said there was nothing wrong with the main journals but recommended polishing them. By now I was getting quite friendly with the chap actually doing the job and he asked to see the mains shells. His opinion was they would probably do but if I could afford it to just buy a new set - which I did. When I got the shaft back I was most impressed. The surfaces of both big end and main journals were mirror like with beautifully formed corner radii. In the past I've seen some quite poorly formed corner radii on reground shafts which, of course, is not good as stress concentrations can cause fractures later in use. This particular company have also done a couple of Imp shafts for me and always the quality of work was excellent. It's been a number of years now though since I've needed a shaft ground or a head faced but I'd go back to them with confidence.

I was just thinking that even if all your journal sizes check out AOK it might benefit you to find an engine specialist who could do a polish job on them. I don't know how Browns did the polishing but I suspect, having polished journals myself using very fine grade emery, that they used something considerably more sophisticated and precise. The Ambassador ran faultlessly for many years and later, when I traded it in for a Mk2 1.8 SRI Astra Estate, saw duty as a taxi!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

1) The teardown continues and everything looks good thus far. Only the crank is left to remove. So... what have you guys used to remove those phillips screws on the front main bearing holder? I don't have any screwdrivers close to large enough and fear those will easily round out if I try something else. Since I can't easily bring the whole motor to the hardware store to test the fit, is there a specific # that fit them?

2) So two of those plugs I asked about earlier - one in the timing cover, the other in the block, are obvious oil passages, one in the feed to the oil pump - it tees at the pump input with the sump pickup - and the other comes off the front camshaft oil feed. Can those be used to tap into for a remote, conventional oil filter? All the kits I see have other hookups on the timing cover, but can you not use those two lines? Something like patching in a filter between where I'm holding that piece of clear hose in the pics. I can't find an oil feed diagram anywhere online to validate this.

3) Since I was at an impasse, waiting on a honing tool and lacking the proper phillips head, I decided to try a little old-school hot-rodding style on the spare tin work. With the new motor, I plan to fit a conical filter directly to the carb intake neck, so no need for the original air filter housing, so I cut it off and cut out the bottom half of the top cover. I'll grind it clean, get a circular patch welded on, clean it up, and see what it looks like. A lot cheaper than some of the fancy cast aluminum ones. What do you think? Feel free to chuck spears. lol.

Cheers,
Matt
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

The trick with the 2 phillips screws that hold the bearing housing to the crankcase is to use an "impact screwdriver". This is a screwdriver where you hold the screwdriver into the screw, twist the body of the screwdriver in the direction you want it to turn and then wack it with a large hammer (remembering to keep your fingers out of the way!). The impact loosens the screw and turns it in the direction you want it to go and at the same time forces the srewdriver head into the head of the screw. The replacement screws are 'cap-head' these days---if you want a couple, I will put some into the post to you.
With regard to the airfilter top, that is a common trick, and if you are fitting the twin-choke side-draught carbs, essential. I have a Dellorto FZD on my engine and to make it look neater, also taken the top of the filter housing off. I also removed the air 'scoop' underneath the top cover as it is no longer required. Agreed--much cheaper than the expensive alloy versions!
I will try and find a picture of the piping for the remote oil-filter that you are prposing to fit, although to be honest, you might just be surprised as to how efficient the standard 'centrifugal' filter is---they used the same system (and same size) on both the 600D the 850 engines.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

With the impact driver thing I would not use the impact driver on the main bearings but use the large Phillips head screw bit from the set in conjunction with an 8mm socket. It is easy to crack the main bearing housing and you have more control that way. I also ignore the torque rating on those screws. I tighten and torque the 4 hex head bolts first with the countersunk screws loose then just tighten the screws to my satisfaction.
I have done a few of those top covers and prefer the simple modified tinware one. I drilled out the spot welds to remove the air filter housing then slit the upstand with a thin grinder, hammer it flat and spot weld a plate over the top.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Top cover in progress
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

I was able to track down a #4 Philips screwdriver at the hardware store and, as luck would have it, the handle fit nearly perfectly in the 32mm socket I bought for the crank nut, so I was able to use my breaker bar to get them out. The motor is totally broken down at the moment and the crank journals all measure within tolerances. Sadly, the front bearing has some minor scoring and the rear has two small nicks on the edges, so it looks like I'll be replacing those. I had hoped to avoid it, but at least I won't need to turn the crank and figure out undersized. Just a minor polish and she'll be good as new.

I'll hot tank and pressure wash the block this weekend, hone the barrels, measure them up, and figure out one big, expensive order from Ricambio (best pricing I've seen thus far).
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post

I'll hot tank and pressure wash the block this weekend, hone the barrels, measure them up, and figure out one big, expensive order from Ricambio (best pricing I've seen thus far).
If you are referring to the London based Ricambio they are quoting £60 plus vat each for standard main bearings. I can do better than that
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Quote Originally Posted by Toshi 975 View Post
If you are referring to the London based Ricambio they are quoting £60 plus vat each for standard main bearings. I can do better than that
PM inbound. No VAT for me, but shipping to the US usually makes it similar.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #27
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Hot tanked the block, timing cover, head, and bellhousing today. While they cooked, I cleaned up the bores with the flex-hone tool that arrived today. After that, some careful masking and a little blasting to clean up the rust on the fins. Now, to do some measurements on the pistons/rings and wait on some parts so I can drop the head at the machine shop and work on the assembly.

So strange that this doesn’t have a bearing for the camshaft. I’ve seen the repair bushings, but what’s the wear tolerance before that’s necessary? Steel cam against an aluminum block... seems they’d want a removable bearing to begins with.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #28
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Hey, those bores have cleaned up really nicely haven't they. Does that first picture show your hot tank? If so can you show us a bit more of it? I'm wondering if it's an economic home proposition for the occasional use I would give one when working on my wee horticultural engines. I'm just making a start on the wee Villiers 2 stroke (or should I say 2 cycle?) on my latest project which is an elderly Ransomes cylinder mower and a hot tank would be very useful.

I'm enormously enjoying your posts. Please do keep on with them - and lots of pictures too please.

Kindest regards
Jock
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Jock,
It is. It’s a propane burner from a turkey fryer kit and a 30 gallon galvanized steel trash can. The can’s seams are sealed on the inside with high temp gasket maker (red Permatex). I used the pictured Simple Green aircraft cleaner at 15:1 and cooked it for 3 hrs or so. In the past I’ve used a smaller can (10 gal?) that fit better on the burner but wouldn’t hold the block. The bigger cans circumference is greater than the burner’s, so I used jack stands to support the lip so it wouldn’t collapse with heat+weight. Lesson learned: tie rope or string to the parts so you can retrieve them when they’re done. Pressure wash upon removal. Not perfect, but good enough for my purposes.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #30
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Re: Barrels/Pistons scoring. Salvageable?

Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post
Jock,
It is. It’s a propane burner from a turkey fryer kit and a 30 gallon galvanized steel trash can. The can’s seams are sealed on the inside with high temp gasket maker (red Permatex). I used the pictured Simple Green aircraft cleaner at 15:1 and cooked it for 3 hrs or so. In the past I’ve used a smaller can (10 gal?) that fit better on the burner but wouldn’t hold the block. The bigger cans circumference is greater than the burner’s, so I used jack stands to support the lip so it wouldn’t collapse with heat+weight. Lesson learned: tie rope or string to the parts so you can retrieve them when they’re done. Pressure wash upon removal. Not perfect, but good enough for my purposes.
I absolutely love this! It's just the sort of innovative, cost effective, Heath Robinson device which greatly appeals to me! In fact I've got one of those old galvanized rubbish bins in my shed which I had to pension off when they introduced the plastic shaped bins which work with the collection system on the refuse lorry. It may have rusted, but I'll be hauling it out and inspecting it.

In fact this is all very timely as I've been thinking lately that I might buy a gas torch (since I mothballed some of my welding gear I now only have my MMA welder) So now I'll be looking for one which works with a larger gas bottle - like yours - rather than just a screw on cartridge. So thanks for all that.

PS thanks for the tip about the string - so easy to do but so easy to forget or not think about in the "excitement".
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