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Tuning 123 ignition profiles

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Tuning 123 ignition profiles

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Veloman518

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I tried to search here for specifics but mostly found wandering trains of thought. Does anyone know what the actual profiles do? I understand I can leave the base profile but their literature mentions an ethanol profile which is 99% of the gas in the US. Unfortunately it doesn't really tell you much about the settings to use and why.

Thanks in advance
 
Here are the advance curves from the manual. It says "...for tuning purposes and/or driving on other fuels like ethanol (E85)." There might be a better curve for the normal 10% ethanol here in the states, but it specifically mentions E85. Boh.
 

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JumpJet said:
Here are the advance curves from the manual. It says "...for tuning purposes and/or driving on other fuels like ethanol (E85)." There might be a better curve for the normal 10% ethanol here in the states, but it specifically mentions E85. Boh.
Click to expand...

right but the manual doesn't say which of those curves to use for that purpose unless I'm just being old and dumb and missing something...a completely possible situation :p
 
I wouldn't mind toying with the settings if they didn't make it such a PITA to change them. Unless I'm mistaken you have to remove the unit to access the setting? I don't have one yet, order on the way.
 
Veloman518 said:
I wouldn't mind toying with the settings if they didn't make it such a PITA to change them. Unless I'm mistaken you have to remove the unit to access the setting? I don't have one yet, order on the way.
Click to expand...

I've never tried to change it for the same reason. You remove an allen-screw underneath and then I think you adjust with a flat-blade screwdriver. It might be possible with a mirror in-situ but the distributor comes off so easily you might as well remove it anyway.

I have been completely satisfied with performance on the standard setting.
 
I have a slightly more complete copy of the "123" settings---if anybody would like a copy just let me know, with your address, and i will post you a copy.
 
I was able to contact the U.S. distributor for the 123ignition systems. For what it’s worth since I’ve heard the manufacturer is not so helpful, he was super responsive. He sent me this explanation and said I could post here.

“Let me try to shed some light on this.
Idle control usually adds advance to the bottom end at start up. Once you put your foot into it and the rpms start to rise the advance retards itself back into the programmed curve. Visually this curve would kind of resemble a check mark.
The curves are divided into four categories.
28 degrees all in advance factory curves is first. The differences being the median number at 2000 rpm. Which by the way is your power band.
The remaining three boxes curves called TUNING 1,2,3 are also delineated by the max all in advance number, 26,28,30 and 32 degrees respectively.
Again within each group is the advance number at 2000 rpm. Notice that the 2000 rpm number advances within each group. This is the power band of your curve.
So the important thing to know is what your motor manual calls for at the all in advance and at 3000 rpm. Once you know that, you can select the appropriate group to start with.
So if you select the 28 degree group you actually have seven curves to experiment with as far as how your car runs. Whatever group you choose, focus in on the 2000 rpm number. Your goal is to add as much advance at 2000 rpm without having the engine ping. Always start with the lowest 2000 rpm number and test ride after each change.”
 

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The information that Veloman518 obtained as shown a couple of posts previously didn't give any more data than I had already but the explanations he obtained were enlightening.

So with the confidence it gave me I went ahead with trying an alternative setting to the standard on my current 594cc engine.

I discovered that changing the settings is far from easy and definitely can't be done with the distributor in-situ. The allen-socket screw is removed with a 5mm key. The screw is very hard to shift as it is threadlocked and that part of the job might actually have been easier whilst still fitted to the engine. It revealed to me the reason for the non-standard cutout in the mounting flange which is to allow access for the allen key and then for a screwdriver. I didn't want to put the unit in the vice so I clamped the allen key and gripped the distributor body in order to turn it. I decided to use Loctite when replacing as I guess this must be important.

Photographing the adjustment disc, deep down inside the opening was beyond my technical ability. In fact I found it hard to even see the settings and needed a bright torch, my specs and the help of a magnifying glass until I had identified the layout.

You need a long and very thin, flat-blade screwdriver to get at the arrowed slot for adjustment. It's not very positive and a bit of care is needed to be sure you have the right setting.

I know what standard is like so I've gone for setting 7, which has upped the advance a tiny amount at 2,000 rpm and nothing more. The engine runs well, it possibly shows a bit more eagerness in taking off, but with no negative effects in terms of noise or in other obvious respects. I'll live with this for a while and then push on to the next setting. :)
 

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Last edited:
fiat500 said:
The information that Veloman518 obtained as shown a couple of posts previously didn't give any more data than I had already but the explanations he obtained were enlightening.

So with the confidence it gave me I went ahead with trying an alternative setting to the standard on my current 594cc engine.

I discovered that changing the settings is far from easy and definitely can't be done with the distributor in-situ. The allen-socket screw is removed with a 5mm key. The screw is very hard to shift as it is threadlocked and that part of the job might actually have been easier whilst still fitted to the engine. It revealed to me the reason for the non-standard cutout in the mounting flange which is to allow access for the allen key and then for a screwdriver. I didn't want to put the unit in the vice so I clamped the allen key and gripped the distributor body in order to turn it. The screw was very tight so I remembered to use Loctite when replacing as I guess this must be important.

Photographing the adjustment disc, deep down inside the opening was beyond my technical ability. In fact I found it hard to even see the settings and needed a bright torch, my specs and the help of a madnifying glass until I had identified the layout.

You need a long and very thin, flat-blade screwdriver to get at the arrowed slot for adjustment. It's not very positive and a bit of care is needed to be sure you have the right setting.

I know what standard is like so I've gone for setting 7, which has upped the advance a tiny amount at 2,000 rpm and nothing more. The engine runs well, it possibly shows a bit more eagerness in taking off, but with no negative effects in terms of noise or in other obvious respects. I'll live with this for a while and then push on to the next setting. :)
Click to expand...

I tinker with watches as well and found that one of my larger jewelers screwdrivers fits in there pretty well and the shaft is thin enough that I can feel the clicks so I just counted clicks.
 
Veloman518 said:
I tinker with watches as well and found that one of my larger jewelers screwdrivers fits in there pretty well and the shaft is thin enough that I can feel the clicks so I just counted clicks.
Click to expand...
You're spot on there. The one I used is similar, from a multi-bit set someone bought me one Christmas. Having the little swivel at the top helps to steady your hand.

Keep us posted with any developments. Are you thinking that the extra advance increases suitability for use with E-fuels?
 
That’s the thinking. My ‘52 MG is the same. Most of the guys over here give them a couple of extra degrees of advance to compensate for lead free/ethanol gas which has a different burn rate than the old leaded fuels they were set up for originally.

With only 18hp to start with I figure every little thing I can tease out of the engine helps. Of course I’m only using my own feeling when I drive so it’s subjective. I suppose having it tested on rollers would be more objective an evaluation.
 
So Veloman518' did you say on another thread you had adjusted up to Curve C?
I'm a bit behind you and now at Curve A. It was hard to sense a real difference from standard at Curve 7 but now the top end advance as well as the mid-range has been increased, the car does have a bit more perkiness. Especially when in third gear, which outside of fast roads you can be for a lot of the time, the buzz is really useful. As the electronics keep the static timing as standard, starting is as easy as ever.

What a great toy to play with (the car and the 123 module). :D
 
fiat500 said:
So Veloman518' did you say on another thread you had adjusted up to Curve C?
I'm a bit behind you and now at Curve A. It was hard to sense a real difference from standard at Curve 7 but now the top end advance as well as the mid-range has been increased, the car does have a bit more perkiness. Especially when in third gear, which outside of fast roads you can be for a lot of the time, the buzz is really useful. As the electronics keep the static timing as standard, starting is as easy as ever.

What a great toy to play with (the car and the 123 module). :D
Click to expand...

I am at curve B and we’ve had quite a bit of rain so i stopped there for now since the tires I have may as well be polished metal in the rain. My experience has been similar and matches the initial information I posted. Setting the advance to 30deg seems to have the top and (3000rpm+) running well, no pinging. The midrange advance seems to help with things like inclines where i feel like there’s just a bit more power and I’m not praying i make it to the top. I’m going to push to C next and see what happens. It’s never going to turn the stock engine into a race car but hopefully makes it a bit more user friendly with a wider power band.

I also have a thoroughly cleaned and rebuilt 28IMB carb and a 126 fuel pump but i still feel it’s fuel starved. I’ve posted elsewhere but my fuel tank and lines are all brand new, fuel pump is clean and carb is properly set up and has 115 main. I just feel like the car wants to go and it just can’t. Also when double clutching, blipping the throttle is painfully slow which I find odd since it didn’t initially do this when I started. It takes several seconds for the throttle to even respond when downshifting.
 
So I am successfully at C with no issues to report. Now if I can ever get the fuel mixture properly dialed I will be happy (for now). Still gives a little Phut now and then on decel. No gunshot loud bang so not super concerned but it seems i should be able to dial this out.
 
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