After reading Peter's comment regarding the fitment of an intermittent wiper facility to his 500, I dived into my filing system and found the information regarding the fitment of this facility for classic cars (with a self-parking system). The company making the 'add-on' kit is:--RETRONICS and they can be found on:--'retronicsonline.com'. At a fraction under £55, it would seem to be good value for money, and for us members who live in 'damp' areas, a worthwhile up-date (note---this is NOT a modification!)

the hobbler said:

After reading Peter's comment regarding the fitment of an intermittent wiper facility to his 500, I dived into my filing system and found the information regarding the fitment of this facility for classic cars (with a self-parking system). The company making the 'add-on' kit is:--RETRONICS and they can be found on:--'retronicsonline.com'. At a fraction under £55, it would seem to be good value for money, and for us members who live in 'damp' areas, a worthwhile up-date (note---this is NOT a modification!)

Click to expand...

Hang on though Tom...I've made a start on my £2.00 version. .... It will be bespoke to the 500 and is potentially quite an elegant solution.

The main problem for me it that the wiper-switch is in an awkward place when you have to keep on/off-ing in showery weather. I could swap positions with the pointless speedo internal light (500F), but I'm not sure the wires would stretch.

I need an additional ON/OFF switch for the intermittent function; BRAINWAVE.....use the dash-lamp-switch. The intermittent function uses the permanent (when ignition on) live feed from the wiper-switch that operates the "park" function of the motor which can be intercepted at the multi-pin plug. So by routing that circuit to my new relay via the dash-lamp switch I have the handy location which will activate intermittent wipe even when the standard wiper-switch is turned off.

But will I no longer have the speedo illuminated? Yes, I simply connected together the two terminated wires which formerly went into the dash-lamp switch. I found one of these standard, yellow connectors, which everyone will know, can be gently squeezed a bit to make a good fit for the original bullet connectors. So when the lights in the car are turned on, pointless as it is, the speedo lamp is also on.

So whether or not I continue to a succesful conclusion with this little project, I have already gained an additional switch on the dash which could be repurposed to have many other functions but which looks perfectly as original.

More to follow....

Either I'm way ahead of you guys, or I've understood nothing of what you're trying to achieve...
Anyway, that's my own version of the "one-shot" wiper cycle.
With ad hoc wire length, the push button can be located anywhere that suits.

fiat500 said:

Hang on though Tom...I've made a start on my £2.00 version.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm ...... this sounds like a MOD to me - albeit at £2.00. But then again you live North of the border Peter ......... when in Rome !!!!!!!!

giardini said:

View attachment 205321

Either I'm way ahead of you guys, or I've understood nothing of what you're trying to achieve...
Anyway, that's my own version of the "one-shot" wiper cycle.
With ad hoc wire length, the push button can be located anywhere that suits.

Click to expand...

Most people are quite a way ahead of me for most of the time and about most things, so that's nothing to brag about.

But what a brilliantly simple idea.

Bleeding Knuckles said:

Hmmmm ...... this sounds like a MOD to me - albeit at £2.00. But then again you live North of the border Peter ......... when in Rome !!!!!!!!

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...it's not a modification until I've done it. And if it doesn't work I'll undo it and pretend it never happened.....oh, and try to get my £2.00 back.

Over the last few days I've been intermittently looking at this and got my wiring ready for today when the important relay was delivered.

Nothing has blown up and the principle is correct but an anomaly in the way that the parking mechanism works on the 500 has left me stumped. See two excellent write-ups which have gone before me.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/314059-fiat-500f-wiper-diagram-operation.html?p=3134064

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/310573-window-wiper-mystery.html?p=3105289

As there is a cam-operated switch which cuts off all power to the motor in the park position, it is then impossible to activate the motor via that location, as intended in the design of the relay. I stripped my spare motor to see the mechanism; the whole component is in amazing internal condition and only needed the commutator to be cleaned despite decades of non-use and damp storage.

I'm sure that there is a way to wire-in another relay and/or diodes in order to achieve this and I may knock together my brain cells to think about this. But for now the concept is on hold.

fiat500 said:

Over the last few days I've been intermittently looking at this and got my wiring ready for today when the important relay was delivered.

Nothing has blown up and the principle is correct but an anomaly in the way that the parking mechanism works on the 500 has left me stumped. See two excellent write-ups which have gone before me.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/314059-fiat-500f-wiper-diagram-operation.html?p=3134064

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/310573-window-wiper-mystery.html?p=3105289

As there is a cam-operated switch which cuts off all power to the motor in the park position, it is then impossible to activate the motor via that location, as intended in the design of the relay. I stripped my spare motor to see the mechanism; the whole component is in amazing internal condition and only needed the commutator to be cleaned despite decades of non-use and damp storage.

I'm sure that there is a way to wire-in another relay and/or diodes in order to achieve this and I may knock together my brain cells to think about this. But for now the concept is on hold.

Click to expand...

Good luck with that! I can’t see any easy way of doing it? I’m sure there is a with a bit of fancy switching but possibly too complicated for what you are trying to achieve.

The problem you have is you need a new switched 12v supply going to C, separate from the existing one. When you apply that 12v’s, it needs to be there to allow the motor to spin and close the park contacts but to stay there for one wipe of the screen and then switch off. Then switch on again sometime later for another wipe of the screen. You needs some sort of timer to switch that 12v on and off for a suitable time frame?

I don’t know if this would work?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/233330786303

I fitted "long reach" switches so you can control them without looking down to find the switch
They are rather delightful period switches also used in rally spec minis
Need to concentrate when dealing with all the power the car now has..,

Vitesse said:

The problem you have is you need a new switched 12v supply going to C, separate from the existing one. When you apply that 12v’s, it needs to be there to allow the motor to spin and close the park contacts but to stay there for one wipe of the screen and then switch off. Then switch on again sometime later for another wipe of the screen. You needs some sort of timer to switch that 12v on and off for a suitable time frame?

I don’t know if this would work?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/233330786303

Click to expand...

Good call..anyone would think that you know something about electricity.

I wish I'd seen your reply and eBay link earlier as I spent best part of an hour digging up something similar:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trigger-...435104?hash=item44483872e0:g:JKcAAOSw6dtdnUlt

I think this would actually be an easier way to achieve the same thing and I can bung my £2 relay in the bin. I could also experiment with this to get the ideal delay period although I think that variable delay on the move is an aspiration too far (and unnecessary).

Might I need to fit a diode to isolate the relay from the normal 12v supply at the motor?

fiat500 said:

Good call..anyone would think that you know something about electricity.

I wish I'd seen your reply and eBay link earlier as I spent best part of an hour digging up something similar:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trigger-...435104?hash=item44483872e0:g:JKcAAOSw6dtdnUlt

I think this would actually be an easier way to achieve the same thing and I can bung my £2 relay in the bin. I could also experiment with this to get the ideal delay period although I think that variable delay on the move is an aspiration too far (and unnecessary).

Might I need to fit a diode to isolate the relay from the normal 12v supply at the motor?

Click to expand...

If I am reading it right it looks like it might be perfect. I read it saying you can switch it on and the input voltage is the same as the output voltage but you set a time that the output is on for. But also says you can set it in a loop so that the time you have set will cycle a number of times depending on what you set it for? Is that how you read it?

I can’t see why you would need to put a diode after the timing relay? It’s only going to have a voltage output when the timer is programmed to do so, so when it’s not operating it can’t do any damage. Probably best to stick an in-line fuse between the timer relay output but you would need to find out how much current it draws to get the fuse rating correct? The only thing that could go wrong is that if you accidentally switched the normal wipers on and the timed ones at the same time?

At that price though it gives you plenty of scope to set up a decent test rig. Does that spare wiper motor work?

Vitesse said:

The only thing that could go wrong is that if you accidentally switched the normal wipers on and the timed ones at the same time?

Click to expand...

The spare wiper works and I also have the brackets and mechanism. The whole thing is incredibly simple but well-made.

On one side of the intermittent switch at the motor there is a permanent live whenever ignition is on. On the other side there is the switched live from the wiper-switch. All of the live feeds to the various parts of the motor seem to share a common connection here, although I'm puzzled about what's happening with the shunt coil which apparently cuts in only when "parking".

So when in normal operation, except, once each revolution, in the moment when the raised "cam" in the self-park mechanism breaks the connection, there is an equal voltage on both sides of the switch. Hence there might not be a problem even if both the standard wiper and the intermittent are on at the same time, although intermittent would be over-rided.. But I need to work out what's happening with that shunt coil.

Anybody thought of speaking to "Retronics" re. the system that they market--as per my initial suggestion on this subject?

the hobbler said:

Anybody thought of speaking to "Retronics" re. the system that they market--as per my initial suggestion on this subject?

Click to expand...

Never mind talking to them, I could simply buy it...but that would be too simple...this is better than Sudoku.

I've had another look at MATTSDAD diagram and the motor and I now see that in the "OFF" position, the wiper switch shorts to earth the shunt coil, which as Haynes says, slows the motor but gives it more torque. This winding must share connections to the other windings etc. so it might be possible to apply a timed voltage to the "F" connection and make the thing work but more likely it would blow the fuse.

The better option is a variation of Tony Vitesse suggestion of a timed voltage applied to the "INT" terminal. Whatever happens, if I get an intermittent wipe it will be the slow and steady wipe you get as the motor is normally turned off.

fiat500 said:

The spare wiper works and I also have the brackets and mechanism. The whole thing is incredibly simple but well-made.

On one side of the intermittent switch at the motor there is a permanent live whenever ignition is on. On the other side there is the switched live from the wiper-switch. All of the live feeds to the various parts of the motor seem to share a common connection here, although I'm puzzled about what's happening with the shunt coil which apparently cuts in only when "parking".

So when in normal operation, except, once each revolution, in the moment when the raised "cam" in the self-park mechanism breaks the connection, there is an equal voltage on both sides of the switch. Hence there might not be a problem even if both the standard wiper and the intermittent are on at the same time, although intermittent would be over-rided.. But I need to work out what's happening with that shunt coil.

Click to expand...

I think you are getting confused! The shunt coil is marked B not S as you might easily be lead to believe from the diagram. So the shunt coil B is the stator or outside coil and A is the internal rotor winding that spins and picks up the current through the brushes. What your referring to is the supplementary coil S that when the switch is in the off position shorts itself to earth and acts as the brake.

You would need to overcome that short to earth somehow or it will be permanently stopped, which is what I think you meant anyway?

fiat500 said:

Never mind talking to them, I could simply buy it...but that would be too simple...this is better than Sudoku.

I've had another look at MATTSDAD diagram and the motor and I now see that in the "OFF" position, the wiper switch shorts to earth the shunt coil, which as Haynes says, slows the motor but gives it more torque. This winding must share connections to the other windings etc. so it might be possible to apply a timed voltage to the "F" connection and make the thing work but more likely it would blow the fuse.

The better option is a variation of Tony Vitesse suggestion of a timed voltage applied to the "INT" terminal. Whatever happens, if I get an intermittent wipe it will be the slow and steady wipe you get as the motor is normally turned off.

Click to expand...

You don’t need a voltage at F you just need it to be open circuit not short to earth.

Vitesse said:

You don’t need a voltage at F you just need it to be open circuit not short to earth.

Click to expand...

This situation is the one that worries me. It's the scenario when I would be applying voltage for a second somewhere???

Once it turns enough to allow the park-switch to make contact again the motor will turn until park position in any case because of the normal park supply.

In the latest episode of my occasional series of short videos which present an interesting alternative to watching paint dry, I present to you. "Intermittent Wipers".

I bought two versions of cheap, Chinese-made relays and I've quickly mocked up the less sophisticated of the two of them to see if the theory works in practise; it does!

If you discount the marginal cost of a few cm. of wire and a couple of terminal connectors, the cost was £3.99 but could have been a bit cheaper if I'd shopped around.

Now I've worked out what to do, actually wiring it in takes about ten minutes, even for a duffer like me. Ideally it needs a momentary-switch"; push one to start intermittent, push two to stop it. This might be easiest with a non-standard push-button.

The wiper interval is adjustable but it's not really practicable to do other than to set it to an optimal gap and leave it at that. The original wiring is left alone other than one wire needs splicing in to the main wiper feed ...very easy.

I'll get it all tidied-up and once sorted I will take some photos to illustrate what I've done.

[ame]https://youtu.be/DdfFZm-yP6w[/ame]

Very impressive! They managed to ship them out quickly as well. You did a great trade deal with China Mr Trump

This electricky is simple

Vitesse said:

Very impressive! They managed to ship them out quickly as well. You did a great trade deal with China Mr Trump

This electricky is simple

Click to expand...

Thank-you...but maybe eltri****y it not so simple. Looking at the internal wiring-diagram I see that I'm putting a strain on the motor by repeatedly activating the additional winding which is there to brake the motor when it parks. It's now doing that repeatedly and I'm stressing out that this might cause problems.:bang: ....job on hold.