I've now got too many engines; but I do like messing about with them. I've currently got no use for a 594cc engine which was running when I bought it but which I took apart, partly to use some of the ancillaries and partly intending to rebuild it.

So I've just measured all the important components and find that everything is standard size and virtually unworn. On top of the original cost I expect that the new bearings, rings, gaskets, timing gear etc., will cost me at least £200. If I sold it when completed I would probably pass it on as a bare engine (to the uninitiated...crankcase, barrel and pistons, fitted with the head, carburettor and sump) in order to make it easier to deal with transportation. Some of the other parts were either faulty or have now been re-used; maybe I could sell the engine cowlings and some other bits and bobs?

I would road-test the engine over a few hundred miles until it had fully settled down and to check for leaks etc. Although I'm going to do this anyway because I'm intrigued to see what performance you get out of a 600, I'm a bit concerned that for my efforts and expenditure I might end up short-changing myself; that's even if the engine would actually sell in that format.

Obviously I would have to make a bit of effort with shining it up, which for me would be the hardest part of the job given my natural disinclination to do so and the grubbiness of the original components; some of which pictured here.

But what's it worth?

fiat500 said:

But what's it worth?

Click to expand...

I for one would not doubt your skills and attention to detail... but I think you would face two problems..
1) everyone wants something for nothing....
2) People are prepared to pay top dollar for an engine rebuilt by "Mario Lanza" the great Italian Engine builder, because he was building Fiat 500 Engines before they even made the cars, he actually builds them with a blindfold and one arm tied behind his back using only one spanner and a pile of pennies"

But he of course has a reputation......

I always love to see the adverts "Restored in Italy" and I am sure we have all seen some horror stories there... but an Engine builder or other such expert has a reputation to maintain... I have see some poor rebuilds of all sorts of things (and yes many years ago I reused tab washers to save a few pence...)

So I think if you had the receipts for parts and any balancing etc and lots of photos showing the cleanliness and build (I think you would be looking at a professional cleaning in a tank) and everything else then people would have more confidence.. and a comparison price wise with "Marios" would also help...

Bigvtwin996 said:

he actually builds them with a blindfold and one arm tied behind his back using only one spanner and a pile of pennies"

Click to expand...

...I've got one, posh spanner, it's adjustable as well, so I don't need the pennies

I take your point(s)..professional involvement would be a non-starter with me. I'm seeing fully overhauled, complete engines at £1,600 and raw, scrapyard lumps for £350-£450.

I suppose most people, (me included) would rather buy a good unknown quantity and rebuild it or have it rebuilt to spec. :doh:

I can see your adjustable spanner in that posh box in the top of your picture. That vernier adjustment must help you get the exact a/f [emoji3]
I can see that nice little hammer in that other box.
It seems that if this was a question then you have already answered it in that you intend to rebuild the engine and to road test it then maybe sell it. In my opinion that would be a dream for anyone who wants to step up the power on a 499cc car or is looking for a replacement engine for a 500R or an early 126 and does not have your well documented and recognised mechanical skills. I share your passion for working on these engines, initially on my own then for friends who had seen my work, purely as an enthusiast / pal (in most cases). Many non technical people have no idea of the effort and equipment needed for the work and if I relied on the income from work done for others then I would be in the food bank queue.
Doing what you say will at least get it out of your system and you can move on, any doubts just sell the kit of parts if you need the space and problem solved.

You're on the nail on all points there @ Toshi 975 apart from the "skills" bit, but I'll accept the flattery as it's the season of Goodwill. [emoji3]

fiat500 said:

You're on the nail on all points there @ Toshi 975 apart from the "skills" bit, but I'll accept the flattery as it's the season of Goodwill. [emoji3]

Click to expand...

Hi Peter, The one thing I would be mindful of is the present need to 'guarantee' your product people are quite fickle nowadays and the last thing you need is the purchaser of your engine to turn around and claim it's faulty after treating it like a modern unit and blowing the thing up !!!!! Best of luck if you do assemble and sell, but I would limit the period in which you will take it back to rectify any problems
Ian.

Bleeding Knuckles said:

people are quite fickle nowadays and the last thing you need is the purchaser of your engine to turn around and claim it's faulty....I would limit the period in which you will take it back to rectify any problems
Ian.

Click to expand...

I had been thinking about that and at first I decided it might be a good reason to shelve the whole resale idea.

On further thought I decided that I would require a photo of the odometer-reading of the car the engine was going in and updated ones every three months. Providing the car had travelled an average of 1,000 miles per month, the warranty would be unlimited.

fiat500 said:

I had been thinking about that and at first I decided it might be a good reason to shelve the whole resale idea.

On further thought I decided that I would require a photo of the odometer-reading of the car the engine was going in and updated ones every three months. Providing the car had travelled an average of 1,000 miles per month, the warranty would be unlimited.

Click to expand...

Interesting thread this, I have a 495cc lump and synchro gearbox to rebuild and I was going to sell it on but I now having second thoughts.


In other motoring worlds I frequent (mainly VW) I have rebuilt and sold engines with no issues what so ever. All I have done is photo the parts and rebuild and then run it for a duration to prove it's not going to go bang in the first 100 miles. I take videos of it running and also offer the buyer to come test drive the car with the engine if they require. (just round the block sort of thing) Friends and associates then vouch for the engine on the advert on the forum. All engines are sold as seen with no warranty.


Are engines not as widely required in a Fiat 500 world? or is it they are not as widely available to be as frequently bought and sold which is why the hesitation is there? Don't know but some good comments and views offered.


Personally I wouldn't buy an engine unless it's really cheap or I know the builder but other people would happy pay money for engines as I have witnessed.....


In fact I am going to rebuild this unit and box, I'd rather have it as a built investment rather than a box of parts just getting rusty etc...…


If it sells it sells, if it doesn't so be it......

The Whitakers said:

Are engines not as widely required in a Fiat 500 world? or is it they are not as widely available to be as frequently bought and sold which is why the hesitation is there? Don't know but some good comments and views offered.


Personally I wouldn't buy an engine unless it's really cheap or I know the builder but other people would happy pay money for engines as I have witnessed.....


In fact I am going to rebuild this unit and box, I'd rather have it as a built investment rather than a box of parts just getting rusty etc...…


If it sells it sells, if it doesn't so be it......

Click to expand...

...similar thoughts to my own.

For instance, I have a 500 gearbox which is completely untouched and likely to be (although I'm not certain) in excellent condition. As it is, regardless of value, I think I would be unlikely to sell it quickly as the eBay market seems flooded.

Any old gearbox like this will always need new gaskets and seals...hence needing a rebuild in any case. If I rebuilt, even if it did turn out to be OK and therefore without changing any of the critical parts, I doubt it would become much more saleable or valuable.:bang:

My limited experience of professionally rebuilt parts (a distributor and a starter-motor) does not leave me with any confidence that you can rely on commercial specialists to get things right.

But being a regular observer on this forum there are several people who have the ability, attention to detail and broader knowledge which would give me great confidence in any component they had repaired or rebuilt.....

fiat500 said:

...similar thoughts to my own.

For instance, I have a 500 gearbox which is completely untouched and likely to be (although I'm not certain) in excellent condition. As it is, regardless of value, I think I would be unlikely to sell it quickly as the eBay market seems flooded.

Any old gearbox like this will always need new gaskets and seals...hence needing a rebuild in any case. If I rebuilt, even if it did turn out to be OK and therefore without changing any of the critical parts, I doubt it would become much more saleable or valuable.:bang:

My limited experience of professionally rebuilt parts (a distributor and a starter-motor) does not leave me with any confidence that you can rely on commercial specialists to get things right.

But being a regular observer on this forum there are several people who have the ability, attention to detail and broader knowledge which would give me great confidence in any component they had repaired or rebuilt.....

Click to expand...

Just jumped on Ebay UK and there is one synchro mesh box on there and it's a refurbed one for £890 non exchange and has a warranty of 1 month from date of purchase...……….Same guy is selling a 650cc lump for £1600 plus £100 carriage.....same warranty...….

fiat500 said:

I've now got too many engines................
.......................................................................................................
I could sell the engine cowlings and some other bits and bobs?
......................................................................................
I might end up short-changing myself; that's even if the engine would actually sell in that format.
........................................................................
But what's it worth?

Click to expand...

You have an idea then someone comes along and starts to copy you......

|
\/
\/
\/

Bigvtwin996 said:

You have an idea then someone comes along and starts to copy you......

|
\/
\/
\/

Click to expand...

Just do it!...….unless I'm looking in the wrong places there are very few 'units' available privately for sale (UK) anyway that have been rebuilt so my view is that how can we judge the demand?


Looking at the warranty status of a few of the 'suppliers' of refurbed engines it's fair to say that you are paying a premium for what I would call a 'vague' warranty...….


If you are not charging the amounts that supplier do then how do we know there is not a demand for 'enthusiast built engines' do to the infrequency of availability.


I believe it's fair to say that you wont be getting rich from doing it though...…..

Did anyone watch the episode of "Salvage hunter--classic cars" the other day? (8th Jan, "Quest" channel). They restored a 500 and took the engine to be up-graded to 'Proietti' in London. Steff Proietti quoted 40 hours to totally overhaul and up-rate the engine to '595' size and performance specs. Now, if Steff ONLY charged £50 per hour that is a £2,000 LABOUR bill----I will leave you to calculate the cost of the parts required!! (Cam, gaskets, timing chain and sprockets, 3-1/2litre sump, sports exhaust etc, etc.) but you are going to be in the £3,000 bracket.

I'd like to see that episode. Having checked online I can see they're showing it again on Quest tomorrow at 6.30pm. Assume it's available online somewhere...

the hobbler said:

Did anyone watch the episode of "Salvage hunter--classic cars" the other day?...............................

Click to expand...

Unfortunately as I was devoid of any other entertainment I found my self watching Dull Pilchard, however I am unable to recall any aspect of the show....
But then again there was worse to come...
There was that program with the bloke that knows a bit about engines, the guy with the funny accent and the bit of eye candy for equality (no offence intended but it seems to be the norm these days as tv tried hard to be equal but fails dismally......)
They put one of those off the shelf electric motor kits in a what from the outside was a 500 L but it looked like a later R speedo...
Apparently claim to have sold it for over £40k!!! get real!!


Sorry I do find most car type programs rather pathetic... dumbed down for the masses... possibly the only things worth watching are with Guy Martin involved...

or am I becoming a fuddy duddy....

You are being somewhat rude about Helen, (the 'candy' on "goblin Garage)--if you look at her CV you will see that she can more than hold her own with the lads technically. On the very 1st edition shown she was a bit too enthusiastic running an early Escort around a quarry and 'bent it'----it was Helen who got all the panels required and welded it all back together. At least the 'Goblin' crew don't pay over the odds for a car then sell it at a giveaway price, like 1 well known series!

I’ve seen ‘Goblins Garage’ only a couple of times but I had noted that she does seem to know her way around the spanner’s etc and potentially may have commented something similar.....

Mrs W doesn’t like me watching it for some reason...

The programme itself I think is one of the better ones, I can’t abide the one with the squeaky voiced little fat southerner in.....which is a shame because is co-host I quite like..

the hobbler said:

.....if you look at her CV .........................

Click to expand...

CV- 10 years Fashion Blogger , 4 years CEO failed custom Garage (WOW a CEO is appointed by a board of directors, not another title for a UK Company director).....
Then we have someone who whilst respect for a turn or two in Iraq highlights "development of Action Man and Micro Machine toys for Hasbro" a a career highlight...
The one that seems to have less of a part seems to be quite highly qualified in engineering..... although does include Nigh club manager as a career highlight...

You may confuse cynicism as rudeness.. but knowing someone in the Production team gives a in site into the "Casting" of presenters for such TV dramas.... and the less said about Buzz and his side kick the better.

They paid £14k for that car!!!!! I think Sean would have sold his to them for that..
A team of "highly skilled and experienced engineers then removed the engine using an engine crane!!! Did they not consult a Haynes Manual?
then they purchase an "off the shelf EV kit purpose designed for a 500 but could not wire it up using the Plug in connectors!!
Added wide arches but did not even think that the new wheels/tyres would catch on the original arches...

and then sold it for £44k?

I guess the wheels/arches and a bit of tube was considerable "added value"..

OK Peter,I get the picture----you don't think much of the programme , and don't like it! But being the CEO of a failed company doesn't seem much of a 'blackmark' these days---at least she had a go!

I can't help thinking that this thread took an odd turn at some stage. Anyone who is prepared to go to the lengths that Peter intended must be worth a punt in my opinion. Engine components used or new can fail at any stage without warning and you cannot prepare for that.
I really enjoy putting the little Fiat Engines together and I suspect Peter does too. Over the years I have pulled a number of bare crankcases out of my garage and messed around with good used & new parts to build a complete engine. It is a great sense of achievement when you fire up that once pile bits on the bench.
I am planning to do the same again later this year and build a 540cc engine with some of the special bits I have accumulated. I am amusing myself at the moment by restoring a 1970's Hondo guitar that I found sticking out of a rubbish bin while I was in New Zealand. Also converting a 1940's Hawian lap steel guitar to a real modern rocker. I can't play a note but I just like doing it.
So Peter just do what you want to do & let's face it a complete rebuilt running engine is a lot nicer than a pile of old bits.
Hell I know people younger than me who are always rebuilding things, jig saw puzzles