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Old 13-12-2019   #16
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Re: Another oil explosion

Quote Originally Posted by F123C View Post
I'm still wondering where the oil exited the engine?
OP said the oil filler cap and dipstick were still in situ, no mention of any breather pipe blown off, just that oil was coming out of the vents.
And as Toshi 975 has said, if a seal blows, it doesn't re-seal itself.


Me too, surely if there was so much oil it would be visible as to where it had exploded from?!


Is there any pics of the aftermath?


Rob
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #17
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Re: Another oil explosion

Sorry no pics of the carnage, but here's some new information.

I've re-routed the overflow pipe from the rocker cover into a plastic container to see if there is anything working it's way through. However, when running, there seems to be only air coming through that pipe. Blocked the end to the carb too.

Also secured the dipstick in so it can't be blown out. It does seem as though this is the source of the oil spraying out.

Then gave it a run. Noticed the oil sensor on my Abarth-style dashboard suddenly flicked from about 4bars up to off the scale (not a gradual climb). Is it possible that the sensor for the oil pressure is earthing out on the distributer? It's very close to it (almost touching) and would this give a max oil pressure reading?

No other problems since doing this, but it's a temporary fix to monitor the situation.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #18
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Re: Another oil explosion

On most/all of the older Fiats, earthing of the wire that goes to a gauge will move the reading to full or maximum, in the case of a warning light, earthing it's wire will cause the warning light to be illuminated. This applies to fuel gauges, water temp/oil pressure gauges and water temperature/low fuel/ low-oil pressure warning lights.

So, short answer is your oil pressure gauge suddenly going to maximum could very easily be caused by the wire coming from the sensor touching to earth.

Maybe try earthing this wire and see if the gauge goes to reading max.? and if so, then carefully check for possible earthing along this wire. As this is an aftermarket gauge fitment, this possible shorting could be anywhere along the signal wire, even at the front, but it's more likely that any intermittent shorting is occurring somewhere close to the engine due to engine rock in use. (just as you've already suspected ).

Al.
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Last edited by F123C; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:02.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #19
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Re: Another oil explosion

Hi Al

I think you're spot on.

Which means that my oil issue could be a simple loose dipstick problem and the pressure gauge just coincidental.

Would it be normal for oil to spray out of the dipstick hole if the fitting was loose?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #20
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Re: Another oil explosion

Tim, I think you were spot on with your original theory - I just offered a bit of extra info in case it might help others at some point if they do a search and find this thread.

You might be right also about the oil simply having blown out around a loose dipstick after running at speed for a while - others have reported similar experiences and the advisability of securing the dipstick to prevent same.
There is iirc a small 'O' ring on the dipstick to seal it, if it still weeps a little.

Fiat may have recognized this problem, the 500R/126 engines had the later type of dipstick which has a better seal and was fitted to all later models. See-

http://www.fdricambi.com/en/fiat-500...fiat-500-r-126 and it's replaceable rubber seal to it's right on the miscellaneous page.

Al.
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Last edited by F123C; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:20.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #21
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Re: Another oil explosion

During normal running, crankcase pressure varies as the pistons move. This pressure should be vented through the breathing system, so even a loose dipstick should only weep a little.

The breathing system should be checked to ensure it is all as it needs to be, not restricted. If the system breathes into the engine intake, there is usually some system to condense the oil and prevent it being sucked through and burnt. Might be a little gauze filter or similar. If blocked, crankcase pressure may not vent properly and push past the dipstick.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Re: Another oil explosion

An update on the oil issue.

No problems from the overflow pipe on the rocker cover.

Dipstick secured in place (cable tie, so temporary) and no further problems with oil explosions. (Slight concern that if there is high oil pressure, now there is no vent.)

Oil pressure gauge maxing out, but seems to be an earthing issue with the sensor, so unrelated, though curiously coincidental?!

Last thing to check is piston rings. She has been running rich and I'm told this can wear the rings? I've had the carb set up so hopefully she's not running rich now. She's going in for a compression test soon which will tell me how the rings are. I suspect a large bill if they need replacing.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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Re: Another oil explosion

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding high oil pressure and crankcase pressure.

High oil pressure will cause leaks from joints and seals. It will not cause the dipstick to pop out.
High oil pressure is caused by pressure relief valve issues.

High or unvented crankcase pressure can cause leaks from joints and seals, and may eject the dipstick.
High crankcase pressure is caused by excessive piston blow-by, or blocked crankcase ventilation systems.
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Last edited by portland_bill; 1 Week Ago at 00:17.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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Re: Another oil explosion

Quote Originally Posted by timgarman View Post
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Last thing to check is piston rings. She has been running rich and I'm told this can wear the rings? I've had the carb set up so hopefully she's not running rich now. She's going in for a compression test soon which will tell me how the rings are. I suspect a large bill if they need replacing.
They used to say that running 'on the choke' (which would be running very rich) too much would wash the oil film from the cylinder walls and could cause ring/bore/piston wear, but it would take many thousands of miles to become noticeable.

I doubt your bit of running 'rich' (you don't say how many miles you've covered but iirc it's on a recently rebuilt, modified engine?) would have had much negative effect so soon. A compression check is a good idea if you have any concerns. I'd wait for the results and the prognosis of the Mechanic before starting to worry.

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Last edited by F123C; 1 Week Ago at 01:31.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Re: Another oil explosion

Thanks Al.

Engine has been re-bored and reconditioned. Travelled around 2,500kms since.

Portland-Bill I'm leaning towards the crankcase but we'll see. Compression test next week.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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Re: Another oil explosion

Quote Originally Posted by timgarman View Post
Thanks Al.

Engine has been re-bored and reconditioned. Travelled around 2,500kms since.

Portland-Bill I'm leaning towards the crankcase but we'll see. Compression test next week.
Could be that new rings are not yet fully bedded into the new bores, so not sealing properly yet. OR! Not run in properly, and bores are glazed (polished) so rings won't seal. When running in, it is important to give the engine some work to do, not run it too lightly. If you've run it too lightly, the rings have not bedded into the bores, so the bores become polished, preventing the rings from sealing. May need teh bores honed lightly to unglaze them.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Re: Another oil explosion

Just out of interest what oil are you using?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #28
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Re: Another oil explosion

Oil is a mineral based 20-60.

Results of the compression test are marginally over 7-1 (7.2-1). Engine is an original re-bored to 594.

I think this is normal and should rule out the rings.

Dip stick is cable tied in place and I haven't had any further problems. Whilst this points to the oil pump valve, I'm thinking to leave it alone.

Thoughts?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #29
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Re: Another oil explosion

Quote Originally Posted by timgarman View Post
Results of the compression test are marginally over 7-1 (7.2-1). Engine is an original re-bored to 594.
Normally a compression test gives results as pressure achieved during the test. This involves a pressure gauge in the spark plug hole, throttle wide, and crank several times for pressure to rise and stabilise. Test done twice, second time with small amount of oil addd to bore to see if any difference noted. If adding oil increases pressure, this suggests rings not sealing, as the oil helps seal for the test.

A compression ratio is normally measured by comparing swept volume with combustion chamber volume. This involves head removal, and measured amounts of usually paraffin. That will not diagnose piston sealing issues.

Quote Originally Posted by timgarman View Post
Dip stick is cable tied in place and I haven't had any further problems. Whilst this points to the oil pump valve, I'm thinking to leave it alone.

Thoughts?
Crankcase pressure and oil pressure are not related.
Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding high oil pressure and crankcase pressure.

High oil pressure will cause leaks from joints and seals. It will not cause the dipstick to pop out.
High oil pressure is caused by pressure relief valve issues.

High or unvented crankcase pressure can cause leaks from joints and seals, and may eject the dipstick.
High crankcase pressure is caused by excessive piston blow-by, or blocked crankcase ventilation systems.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #30
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Re: Another oil explosion

Evening Tim;
As "Portland Bill" has pointed out, the result of a compression test usially is shown as PSI, not as a compression ratio. (plugs out, foot fully down on throttle, one person holds the gauge in the plug hole, the other person cranks the engine). As an aside, I would be VERY surprised if the compression ratio of your engine is only 7.2:1. The original 479cc engine was 7:1, all the 499cc engines were 7.1:1, the 500 'sport' was 8.6:1 and the Mk1 (594cc) 126 engines had a 7.5:1 compression ratio. If your engine started as a 499cc engine and was then bored to 594cc, I would expect a compression ratio nearer 8:1.
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