Technical Noise when in gear

[erosby]

I get a very disturbing, not too loud though, noise when in gear. It is a scarping, or rattling, noise which seem to follow the rpm. It stops completely when out of gear or clutched.

The noise do not seem to effect performance, at the moment at least.

1. Where should I start to look?
- please treat me as a newbie who has no access to millions of tools or a garage to hoist up the car

2. How scared should I be? Can I go for a ride in current state?


Follow up questions to help diagnostics are welcome.

 

[fiat500]

Is the noise present when coasting in neutral? Did the noise start suddenly? It might be as simple as a small stone trapped between the rear swingarm and the drive coupling. Raise each rear wheel off the ground in turn, then rotate the wheel listening for scrapes or creaks. It might be internal, which would obviously be a problem.

 

[erosby]

The noise is not present when in neutral but it did start suddenly. Last time I drove it was the first time I heard it.

 

[fiat500]

That does seem to point towards a gear or bearing problem then. But in my experience, most problems turn out to have a simple cause. Have your checked the oil level in the box. You could drain it and there might be clues in the colour of the oil or a generous refill with new oil might help....... worth a try before any more serious involvement.

 

[the hobbler]

I second Peter's suggestions. You might find the level/fill plug very tight and difficult to remove. The trick is to use a 1/2in drive extension bar the wrong way round (i.e. the 1/2in drive square over the level/fill plug) and a 1/2in socket on the other end. Try and keep the car level (put it upon 4 STANDS--do NOT EVER work under a jack!!) and use a syringe to refill the gearbox. The gearbox is at the correct level when oil comes back out of the fill plug. The correct oil to use is a good quality 20/50 engine oil---Castrol, Millers, Morris are 3 very good brands (and English) but of course there are other good brands. Also, whilst under the car, check for any gearbox oil leaks which be the cause of low (if it is) oil level.

 

[erosby]

So, you are both right - I think. This is what happened.

As I, and the car, are currently in Malta with very limited access to both tools and a place to play mechanic I drove around asking for someone to change the transmission oil. About 2 hours later I found someone, on the way there the worst part of the noise suddenly disappeared.
We hoisted the car up, in level, and there was a small leak and almost no transmission oil. Glad nothing worse than the noise seem to have happened.

I had to leave the place and they had to go buy "premium" oil for vintage cars. I later got back when they were done and was told they also trimmed the carburettor. I am so sorry for the latter part though, now it seem to flood and sometimes die on idle. The "garage" who helped me are closed for holidays, just as all "garages" are down here at the moment, and I have to learn the art of trimming a carburettor, fast.
Because - this Sunday we are about to embark on a small road trip to Sweden. Mixed feelings about that at the moment.
Pointers on where to find "FIAT 500 (1972) Carburettor for dummies" are more than welcome.

 

[fiat500]

I'm impressed that you're setting off for Sweden: how far is that. Please keep us posted. Take some oil with you to top up the box....any oil is better than none in an emergency. I'm of (I hope) average build, and I can get at the oil filler plug whilst the car is sitting on its wheels on level ground.....the safest way of all.[emoji4]

So, you are both right - I think. This is what happened.

As I, and the car, are currently in Malta with very limited access to both tools and a place to play mechanic I drove around asking for someone to change the transmission oil. About 2 hours later I found someone, on the way there the worst part of the noise suddenly disappeared.
We hoisted the car up, in level, and there was a small leak and almost no transmission oil. Glad nothing worse than the noise seem to have happened.

I had to leave the place and they had to go buy "premium" oil for vintage cars. I later got back when they were done and was told they also trimmed the carburettor. I am so sorry for the latter part though, now it seem to flood and sometimes die on idle. The "garage" who helped me are closed for holidays, just as all "garages" are down here at the moment, and I have to learn the art of trimming a carburettor, fast.
Because - this Sunday we are about to embark on a small road trip to Sweden. Mixed feelings about that at the moment.
Pointers on where to find "FIAT 500 (1972) Carburettor for dummies" are more than welcome.

 

[erosby]

I will try to keep you posted, and I might need the expertise from in here on the journey. We counted roughly 1930km without detours, that is km to be driven - and upon that we will be on a car train from Verona to Hamburg.

As for the car. Turned out the choke didn't go back more than to "position B" as the wire had been tightened to much - how come I don't know. After fixing this and trying to trim the carburettor it runs fine!
The transmission does unfortunately leak though, estimated to roughly 0,5-1dl over the night. Syringe bought has been bought.

 

[fiat500]

That's quite a lot to lose without even moving. It can only get worse as the car gets hot.
If the box is not now overfilled there are few places it could leak from at a standstill other than the obvious.... driveshaft gaiters or a cracked case. I would guess the leak is between the selector housing and the main box. This could be repaired quite easily with the box still in the car. Good luck.[emoji4]

 

[erosby]

It is a lot, it shall be interesting to see how second night has been.

Thanks for the suggested leak places, I will have a look.
When it was at the mechanic I saw that the right side oil boot was wet, that could point towards driveshaft gaiters I assume.
If it is the leak of your guess, between the selector housing and the main box - how would you go about to fix it?

 

[fiat500]

If the gaiter leaks, that will be the main problem. It's easy to sort as fairly obvious to a mechanic without removing the box. But obviously you need the parts first and sometimes the driveshaft is scored which might make a repair kit partly successful.

 

[erosby]

So, there seem to be much less leak second night - see the picture atteched as I moved the car forward about 0,5m after the first night.

Second photo shows where I assume the leak originates. I am trying desperately to find a mechanic to help out but there are holidays both here and in Italy - bummer.
What we will try to do is refill gearbox and find a mechanic along the way - hopefully before something gets worse.

 

[erosby]

So, I managed to patch the boot and after some 400km it is still working.
We ran in to problem around Catania though, the dynamo gave up, but luckily we found the best mechanic I have yet to meet, they sourced and fixed everything in less than 24h.

Now I have another question: the parking/handbrake leaver(the stick you pull to brake) is getting awfully hot after driving a while and I suspect it shouldn't. I tried to search here but can't find any real good info on the same. Could it be that brake fluid is low and the brakes are "on" constantly?

Today's stretch is planned from Tortona to Verona.

Thanks!

 

[fiat500]

Great to hear your progress. I doubt you have the heater on deliberately, but the handle normally gets very hot if you're using it: maybe hot air is leaking past a worn rubber. Either of those is not a thing to worry about for now. Brakes might be catching but I doubt this would be a symptom.

Come on... photos of the journey please.[emoji3]

 

[erosby]

Thanks! How do I turn it off? I don't need any more heat

Some quick pics attached: car being towed, car fixed and the wall of fame from the mechanic.

Just arrived in Verona now, tomorrow we'll take the car train to Hamburg. To be continued.

Great to hear your progress. I doubt you have the heater on deliberately, but the handle normally gets very hot if you're using it: maybe hot air is leaking past a worn rubber. Either of those is not a thing to worry about for now. Brakes might be catching but I doubt this would be a symptom.

Come on... photos of the journey please.[emoji3]

 

[fiat500]

Look behind the seats on the centre tunnel where it broadens to a triangle shape. There is shhould be a little lever which turns through 45 degrees from fully closed to fully open. Any intermediate position reduces the amount of heat and noise from the engine. It relies on a rubber flap to cut off the hot air and this will deteriorate over time making it impossible to turn off fully. It is possible to remove a rubber tube at the back of the engine which will ct off the hot air completely; but if you're going to Sweden, maybe not a good idea.

 

[gordinir8]

So we have a very brave friend here driving from Sweden to Malta on his 500 Peter you should reply on this and come to Greece to join with me for a trip to ''Meteora''
Most dangerous part of the trip is driving to Malta roads with the 500, those guys there are the worst drivers i have see but they have a lot of vintage well restored cars so i guess also good mechanics. As for the heater i am removing the rubber hose every summer for just a little better cooling of the engine (i have obsession with engine cooling), i noticed at list at summer that even without the tube if i open the heater switch hot air enters the cabin!!
Anyway please keep us updated.
Thomas

 

[fiat500]

So we have a very brave friend here driving from Sweden to Malta on his 500 Peter you should reply on this and come to Greece to join with me for a trip to ''Meteora''

You're right there Thomas, erosby is braver than anyone else I can remember on this Forum.

I will take you up on that suggestion and I'll be happy to drive with you to Meteora, but first I have to decide when to drive to Greece. I would have liked to do that this year but lots of other things have taken over...maybe next summer. I think I would travel overland through Croatia.

I am just back from Boukari in Corfu where I really enjoyed the 38C temperature and the warm sea; the food is fantastic too as is the hospitality...all better than I experienced in Italy earlier this year. We hired a 125cc, liquid-cooled scooter and I was amazed how it ran and started so well without ever overheating, even with two of us onboard.

Greece must be great for maintaining an old car because every day in summer seems to be warm and dry and unlike in Scotland I wouldn't have to keep pushing the car in and out of a cramped garage to avoid the rain so I can work on it outside.

 

[erosby]

It's Malta to Sweden and not the other way around. I hope the worst road-part of the journey is over, and yes Malta takes that price by far, and second Sicily but from Italy mainland and up it's smooth sailing.

The stretch of the day is Verona to Hamburg, but we're cheating by using a car train. A few spared miles on the meeter which should improve our chances to reach the final destination.

I will definitely look for that heater control in the back seat, 30+ degrees is not the most comfortable weather to run the 500. Thanks!

 

[erosby]

Patch is loose! Well almost, it started dripping again though... Thanks to this forum I managed to find Il Motore in Hamburg and they will help us replace the oil boot tomorrow, on a Sunday! What a guy.

As a first time vintage car owner it is awesome to learn how helpful people are in such communities. We got so much help and appreciation along the ride, I had no idea! Keep it up.