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Old 25-06-2019   #31
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

I think that you will find that the 126A1 engine/gearbox assembly (652cc) had the 24/25mm drive shafts. (some sites list them as 24mmm, others as 25mm). The 126 drive shafts are too long, so no matter which gearbox you fit,you MUST use the 500 drive-shafts.
I also think that all the 126A1 engines had 'double' valve springs as standard.
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Old 26-06-2019   #32
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
I think that you will find that the 126A1 engine/gearbox assembly (652cc) had the 24/25mm drive shafts. (some sites list them as 24mmm, others as 25mm). The 126 drive shafts are too long, so no matter which gearbox you fit,you MUST use the 500 drive-shafts.
I also think that all the 126A1 engines had 'double' valve springs as standard.




Assuming it's just a straight swap on the drive shafts regardless of diameter?


Not sure what diameter my 500 ones are but they will be getting used in the short term, I'm not planning on doing any rolling smokies from the lights.....


Yes my A1 lump has double valve springs, I was quite surprised actually that it needs them. Assuming this is the best engine to tune then?


Rob
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Old 26-06-2019   #33
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by The Whitakers View Post
Assuming it's just a straight swap on the drive shafts regardless of diameter?

Yes my A1 lump has double valve springs, I was quite surprised actually that it needs them. Assuming this is the best engine to tune then?
Yes, you can use the ones that are on your original gearbox...thicker ones is just the council of perfection. But although it's a relatively straightforward job to do it would be a pain in the a*** to have to tackle it again in the near future if you start to have doubts about them or if they show signs of wear or weakness.

As far as I am aware, all the engines of 499cc and above have double valve-springs. Even at a restrained road speed, the engine has to revolve at a relatively high rate because there are only two cylinders to supply the power. I suspect that valve bounce would be highly likely if the sophisticated design didn't have this feature.

The 652 seems to be the engine that is most frequntly subjected to tuning. Unless the pleasure of tuning appeals to you for its own sake, (now't wrong with that!), I'm sure that you will find the engine "as-is" will be be sufficient improvement over the original performance for most purposes.
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Old 26-06-2019   #34
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

The only thing to remember if you fit thicker driveshafts is to fit gear-box side-boots to match. The output bush and seal in the boot match the thickness of the driveshaft.
I personally always fit 'Viton' oil seals into the boots. For the 25mm drive shafts the seals to get are from 'Lancashire seals'---"Viton oil seals double lip R23/tc--with stainless steel spring" The actual part number is:--25x35x7 HMSA10V.
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Old 26-06-2019   #35
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post

The 652 seems to be the engine that is most frequntly subjected to tuning. Unless the pleasure of tuning appeals to you for its own sake, (now't wrong with that!), I'm sure that you will find the engine "as-is" will be be sufficient improvement over the original performance for most purposes.
When I rebuilt the 795cc Alquati modified engine last year I was surprised to discover that the original/doner engine was a 594cc. It was an expensive conversion carried out by Italtune & later Lanciana in 1984/5 when 652cc engines would have been available.
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Old 26-06-2019   #36
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by Toshi 975 View Post
When I rebuilt the 795cc Alquati modified engine last year I was surprised to discover that the original/doner engine was a 594cc. It was an expensive conversion carried out by Italtune & later Lanciana in 1984/5 when 652cc engines would have been available.
Good to know....I've got one of those (a 594cc not a modified Aquatica )
If I ever get bored it could be the one to modify.
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Old 26-06-2019   #37
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
The only thing to remember if you fit thicker driveshafts is to fit gear-box side-boots to match. The output bush and seal in the boot match the thickness of the driveshaft.
I personally always fit 'Viton' oil seals into the boots. For the 25mm drive shafts the seals to get are from 'Lancashire seals'---"Viton oil seals double lip R23/tc--with stainless steel spring" The actual part number is:--25x35x7 HMSA10V.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163489943810

Truth is, if you go into the detail, there's a load of things you would be well-advised to check, replace and upgrade. But I guess that time is against you on this project.
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Old 26-06-2019   #38
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163489943810

Truth is, if you go into the detail, there's a load of things you would be well-advised to check, replace and upgrade. But I guess that time is against you on this project.

Yes this is true, it needs to be rolling by the end of the weekend. Pretty much everything is sat waiting a delivery of parts for reassembly. Once I get that everything can have its Pre assemble clean and start to be put back together. I’ve not bored people with rusty bit pics so will just post a pic of the rushed finished lump. I do have to say that the exhaust valves were an arse to re lap in, nearly recut them at one point but we got there...

Great input by all by the way, much appreciated

Rob
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Old 27-06-2019   #39
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
......
I personally always fit 'Viton' oil seals into the boots. For the 25mm drive shafts the seals to get are from 'Lancashire seals'---"Viton oil seals double lip R23/tc--with stainless steel spring" The actual part number is:--25x35x7 HMSA10V.
This is the sort of info that we really need to have stored in one place in a sort of Wiki....(I hope he's got everything written down somewhere)
Once Tom's dementure sets in such info will be lost forever.....
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Old 27-06-2019   #40
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by Bigvtwin996 View Post
Once Tom's dementure sets in such info will be lost forever.....

What...Tom's lost his dentures?
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Old 27-06-2019   #41
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Yes once I have got this engine and box in and running, the spare engine and box I have will have a full strip, vapor blast, tune and reassemble on it ready for when the car its it's full resto...……


After i've finished my beetle that is
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Old 27-06-2019   #42
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Thank you Peter for implying that my dementia has still to start! I have started to write things down already rather than trust to memory. On a more serious note, i have found that when doing one of these projects it is best to get a couple of 'ring-bound' files and to start collecting/collating all the information that you garner into various sections---engine, carbs, electrics, transmission etc. This makes it so much easier to find the info that you need at a future time. Having said that, it can also lead you to a bollocking from 'er indoors who is convinced that you have far to many books and files---I have 38 books on Abarth & Fiat in my reference library--as well as the files!
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Old 27-06-2019   #43
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

By the way of an update. I had to put another order in for parts last night as the bearings in the Alternator where shot and during the frantic strip down I made the school boy error of not removing the brushes before pressing the shaft out (D'oh)…..


I also noted that the fuel pump spaces was cracked and slightly squashed so for the money involved it wasn't worth not getting another.


Hopefully the first order will arrive today so I can start the rebuild.


All the block, crank, cam etc are cleaned, the head has had all the valves re-lapped in and just needs a final clean and reassembly, pistons and barrels need a final clean (barrels deglazing) and the new rings fitting, carb I've not even stripped yet but got a full rebuild kit on it's way, sump and tinware is just getting a blast over with a knot wheel in the grinder, degreased and a coat of black...….


I'll post some pics of the rebuild as it goes for those interested....don't get too excited its just a throw together


Picking the car up from storage at the mother in laws tomorrow night so I can start the strip on that and swap over the drive shafts....


A week tomorrow It will be getting hitched up to the motor home and dragged to Newquay on holiday...…...time is ticking.....
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Old 28-06-2019   #44
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by The Whitakers View Post
Assuming it's just a straight swap on the drive shafts regardless of diameter?
Did we give you this link?

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classi...ml#post4359917
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Old 29-06-2019   #45
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Re: 126 650cc engine transplant..

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post
You didn’t but I have seen it from the recent thread about drive shaft thank you.

Transplant happening this weekend
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