General Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

[BambinoClassic]

We are moving in a couple of months and I will have a garage! So this old weird mongrel of a car has appeared on my radar, and I have an option to sell my 63bhp rover Mini Cooper and come back to my beloved 500s - sadly both cannot fit into my life.

It's not cheap, but it's an N! That someone has thoroughly disrespected, and spent a huge amount taking it as far from its original self as possible.

I would plan to take it back to classic, but I'm not sure if it's too far gone for me to tackle. Things that concern me:

- that engine! Owner says it was from a niki, and bored out to ? It looks like it would potentially run hot - I would be keen to put a more simple/original carb on it if possible... The owner claims it has a synchro box but he was unclear - if the engine is that much of a beast, would it likely require the synchro to run safely?

- I would want to, but can you go back to original 125 wheels and tyres on an engine like that? I assume it would have disc brake conversion and maybe needs to run big wheels


- the poor dash - so many gauges and switches - I know a whole new dash can be fitted, but maybe on that engine the gauges are a necessity. Steering column also looks modified - has the ignition in it?!

- THEY PUT ON ELECTRIC WINDOWS? I would be tempted to keep them for the novelty but seriously?...

Anyway, it's a small world of N cars, and I would love to rescue this one, but fear it could be a money pit and too far gone for me.

Any thoughts? And on the engine in particular?

 

[the hobbler]

With regard to the wheels--there are adaptors available that will allow you to fit '500' wheels onto 126 (98pcd) hubs. That would allow you to retain disc brakes but have authentic looking wheels on the car. Their main disadvantage is that by fitting the adaptors, you would move the wheels out a fair bit---you may have to have some original wheels 'banded' inwards a bit. If it has 12in wheels fitted on it now, I can see no reason why you can't go back to 500/early 126 wheels. If it has 13in wheels fitted, there is a fair chance that the brake calipers won't fit inside 12 in wheels
The engine---if you keep that monstrous device on it (the Weber) you MUST fit a support bracket,or you will break the rubber in the flange joint. It does look as if a fair bit of work has been done to the engine---looks like a "Nanni Ricambi" remote oil filter has been fitted. If the engine has a 'normal' head (as against a 'Panda 30'), you should be able to fit a 28IMB carb back on. The shrouding on the o/s of the engine is not 500 or 126--it is too square--looks like it is off a German specs engine (which I believe was the only version that had a fan housing with no air-filter and joined down the centre,along with a the small 'square' o/s housing)--it is rare and difficult to find. If the engine came out of a 'Nicki', there is a very good chance that the gearbox IS a 'synchro' box. Few people go to the trouble of fitting a 126 bell-housing to a '500' gear-box---just is not worth the hassle.

 

[fiat500]

I think maybe that would be putting the desire to have an N in front of an appreciation of the qualities which make an N (or any other version of the car) so special.

You might get some of your money back if you stripped the car and offloaded the components, but would that make enough cash to pay for replacing with genuine N?

If there aren't many cars to choose from in your search area maybe that would justify shelling out a lot for a car that doesn't really suit your requirements? You appear to like originality and have a special interest in the N, but I suspect that if you widen your search parameters, for the same money you would be able to get an unmodified and well-sorted later car which allows you the immediate pleasure of driving and a more reasonable level of mechanical and cosmetic work.

 

[BambinoClassic]

Thanks for the above replies. Tom that's some impressive detective work from some pretty bad photos - my thoughts are that if the engine has too much going on, someone around here might even be happy to swap for a standard 126. Then I assume I can get my original wheels without too much hassle

It's a tough call - having some extra oomph and the synchro box is a big plus. But if it means modifying too much then it loses a lot of the appeal.

Having said that, the N that I'd be keen on is more than double the cost of this one (and around 30,000 British pounds at that). It has kept the original exterior but has some power in the engine bay - looks like the 125 on that one too, so perhaps no discs?

It's a daunting task to tackle this for sure... undoing so much!

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Well it is an N or at least the doors are....
nothing is too far gone to restore back to original... other than cost....
It is the parts that are missing that are ultra rare that will cost money....
You could make it loo like an N fairly easily.. rear lights and new door panels and window mech/winders (same as a D).
Rear lights.... and then it would look ok.
No one would see the engine so leave it as would be my approach...
Knock up a console and move the instruments there then tidy the dash....
drive it and do bits as and when....
You could swap everything back anytime....
Why swap the engine day one if it is running fine...

so you can take your time...

 

[BambinoClassic]

Sounds like a piece of cake!
Actually the enjoyable thing would be taking the time to do it.

Any welders here? I wonder if that dash can have the gauges removed and holes filled without too much anguish...

Of course the top would come off too

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

- that engine! Owner says it was from a niki, and bored out to ? It looks like it would potentially run hot.

HI BC, It looks like you have a Panda 30 head there and the thermostat housing is non-standard ie no thermostat assembly in the top???? It is unlike the German housing either and maybe a butchered 500 housing to fit??? It looks like you may have a cooler somewhere as there is an oil pipe running from the filter housing too??? Unless it is just there to pass oil directly back into the crankcase??? Is the fan belt on the wrong way round??? You have a late model rear valance too - the rear engine mount is wrong????
Ian.

 

[BambinoClassic]

Thanks BK - egads seems like a real mishmash of parts in the back there - not too dissimilar to the mashup in the interior.
The good thing is it all comes out easily enough if you want it to. Whether or not I’m brave enough to take the gamble...

Thing is, body is pretty straight.
Price is not a huge amount more than a rusty F and I get the synchro box and that engine with it.

Could be fun. Could be disastrous, could find some new mock-up horror job at every turn!

 

[fiat500]

I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...

 

[BambinoClassic]

I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...

Hehe one piece at a time
I'm warming to the idea of the task already....

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Hehe one piece at a time
I'm warming to the idea of the task already....

Well you need to check the year etc.. coz there are two types of N wheels... lol
you could find a set of CMR wheels that would be period and nice..


Seriously... if the shell is solid...you have an N..
they are not making any more... It's RHD that's rare....

the dash.. some local guy could cut pieces to fill the holes then TIG them in so no splatter and you could probably fill and spray the dash without too much hassle..
not a fortune to re-trim the interior to original stds..
The rear lights will be the biggest expense..but no rush they may pop up at some local auto-jumble or some local free ad site.. so no rush as you will be looking at new paint to fit them...

As I said.. no one will know what engine... if it's reliable so why.. Yes i like originality.. but as Peter (Murp) says at least it's being driven and enjoyed...
it will take a long time to assemble all the parts to make it more original looking... but they can be cheap....
I brought an early N engine and gearbox for ....... well I have paid more for a nice meal out in a posh place... so stuff comes up. and more stuff is being remade...

if you decide to go for it.... take loads of pics underneath, front and rear, under the front... you don't want a show winner, but you need to know what has been changed and upgraded.. I suspect a lot... but sourcing some simple things may be affected by what has been done... have the rear wishbones been changed for later ones.... I presume it's running 25mm drive shafts, but what couplings...

my aim is to have two cars.. one very original and one.... that looks original but has the modern bits to make it more easy to run and drive without constant maintenance, LED lights where appropriate, 123 dizzy, disk brakes, 650 engine, syncro box... RnP steering, Lithium batteries relocated to under the rear seating area.. electric fuel pump inside the tank (original retained for "the look") Electronic speedo with no cable but replacement speed sensor on box (programmable so 100% accurate) but looks original because it will use the repro dials.. undecided about dual circuit brakes, but stainless flexi pipes. fully preped Ecoat and rustproofed shell.... add US spec exhaust heat ex-changer for heating and air booster for heating system.. hidden stereo and speakers....ahh did I mention heated windscreen (yes I made inquiries) heated seats- yes I have the kit,,,

we can all dream.....

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...

does the new one have a name ?
Mitch?
Mitch and Murph ... could be a double act...

ooohh I have a later wheel or two.. could do a swap...
those later wheels are going up in price... I hope you know!!

 

[BambinoClassic]

I think I’m up there with your plans for two cars, at least having one but like your second one… An original look in but with some of the more modern delicacies to make it an enjoyable ride

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I think I’m up there with your plans for two cars, at least having one but like your second one… An original look in but with some of the more modern delicacies to make it an enjoyable ride

I can only think about doing the modern thing to an N because I acquired one for less than £1500, there isn't much of it, basically a rolling shell, no seats, engine/box and so much had been swapped...
If i didn't have it I would probably look at an F, as that's the design most people associate with a Fiat 500.... (would look again at a full sunroof though)

 

[lazylobster]

Plenty of spare 500 N parts on ebay.it

Use google chrome web browser and it's translate tool and job done.

Deep pockets needed !

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_odk...0.Xfiat+500n.TRS0&_nkw=fiat+500n&_sacat=18323

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Plenty of spare 500 N parts on ebay.it

Use google chrome web browser and it's translate tool and job done.

Deep pockets needed !

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_odkw=fiat+500&_sop=10&_osacat=18323&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xfiat+500n.TRS0&_nkw=fiat+500n&_sacat=18323

funny thing is I know most of the people selling N parts in Italy....
They know the value so hike the prices.... France, Germany and the USA are good places to look, especially the US as 500 didn't take off after they launched them in the late 50s, so if you think about it... they would have shipped a load of parts to dealers..... so lots are hanging about... somewhere... with people having no idea what they are....
I brought a NOS N voltage regulator far cheaper than anything in Europe..

 

[fiat500]

Any welders here? I wonder if that dash can have the gauges removed and holes filled without too much anguish...

...the least of your problems. Very easy to achieve, even with mig-welding.

 

[BambinoClassic]

...the least of your problems. Very easy to achieve, even with mig-welding.

That’s good to hear- to me the classic 500 dash is one of the most appealing there is in the classic car range. Aesthetically and for its simplicity. Filling it with holes and gauges makes me sad

 

[Bigvtwin996]

That’s good to hear- to me the classic 500 dash is one of the most appealing there is in the classic car range. Aesthetically and for its simplicity. Filling it with holes and gauges makes me sad

as I said.. the holes won't be a problem....
you know the size... as they a std instruments so not tooo difficult to cut a bit of metal to shape.... just needs someone to hammer them into the correct curvature..

don't worry about the big bits like engine etc...
the only other pain is the map pocket under the dash...
you need to find a scrap D to cut one from.. perhaps put out a call to the guys in NZ

 

[IanEmery]

BC, I’ve just been taking another look at the photos of the car and in particular the steering column and switches. It looks to me like that set up is from a 126, or Niki as I believe you know them, so given all the other mods to the mechanicals it could possibly have r/p steering conversion.