Hi everybody new to the forum, pleased to meet you all. (I posted this in the wrong Fiat 500) Brought the car last February drove 39 miles and the car broke down when it got hot. Got recovered on a lorry back home to Wolverhampton, where I live. Haven’t had chance to do anything to it until the last few weeks.
The engine is now stripped down to pieces. Valve spring compresser arrived today so such a horrible day decided to take the valves out the head. Now my dilemma - on the valve springs there was only a cup on the top, no cup at the bottom so the valve springs are sitting on the head! The car is a 1970 Fiat 500L with a 110F engine. My question is should there be valve cups at the bottom as well as the top? Any help much appreciated. Cheers

Hi,

not the start anyone wants to see you have, but plenty of help here, just ask. (But if you mention an 'N' or 'D' be warned...)

To your specific question, there should be two cups per valve. Go to this url and scroll to page 19. (Maybe grab the doc while you are there for future ref.....)

http://docfiat500.free.fr/Pour%20TIBOde%20Fran%E7ois%20qui%20te%20dit%20MERCI/F500_Manual.pdf

Regards

Joe R

Hi Joe, thank you for the reply - I will download it and hopefully it will help with future problems - I’m bound to encounter ??. Thanks again, Pam

Hi,
39 miles, that's pretty good in my book. It's 5 usually before my engine conks out!
I rebuilt my top engine last winter, but haven't been brave enough to take it for a long run. Cant say I'm an expert by any means but I work in Wolves and have some spare bits and pieces if your short.

Did 300 miles in mine for a weekend away this year. A lot of it at speed on the motorways. Bit of oil leaking but apart from that sound. :slayer:

R

Yellblob said:

Hi,
39 miles, that's pretty good in my book. It's 5 usually before my engine conks out!
I rebuilt my top engine last winter, but haven't been brave enough to take it for a long run. Cant say I'm an expert by any means but I work in Wolves and have some spare bits and pieces if your short.

Click to expand...

Hiya, thanks for the reply ? apparently I’m missing lower spring cups for the inlet and outlet valves. I need 4 - one for each valve but I’m struggling to locate them Any ideas?

Hi,
You mean item 8 on page 19? I just don't remember those being on mine-it could just be my memory failing though. Sorry, I don't have them. I usually find Ricambio.co.uk the best for bits.

^^^ I've checked, neither www.ricambio.co.uk nor www.fiat500.cc (R.Proietti Ltd) have the lower valve spring seats for the 500.

These lower valve spring seats don't usually wear out or go wrong, so never have to be renewed. Obviously someone was very careless and lost them.....
They won't prevent an engine from running (you did manage 39 miles ) but they are there for a couple of reasons so they should be obtained and fitted.

I feel your best source is that hopefully another member on here might have a scrap cylinder head and volunteer to donate these spring seats to you.

Here's hoping! (very helpful and generous people on here ).
(I've plenty to suit some larger Fiat engines but sadly, none for the 500).

AL.

Hi Al, thanks for the reply, I too have scoured the Internet and can’t find any . We think it has had some work in the past and that seems to verify it as they are most definitely missing!
Fingers crossed that there are four out there somewhere.

Pam

Here is my list of Internet based 500 parts people. Hopefully someone will have or be breaking an engine etc.

https://www.500mania.it/
http://www.passione500.it/index.php?route=common/home
http://www.fiat500sport.com/tuning-and-racing-parts-fiat-500.html
http://www.fiat-classic.com/
http://www.ricambio.co.uk/69-fiat/20-classic-fiat-500-parts--spares
https://www.fiat500ricambi.com/
http://auto-bella.co.uk/parts/classic-fiat-parts/
https://www.fiat500vdlaan.nl/en/index.php
http://www.weeniefiats.co.uk/parts.php
https://webshop.fi500.com/en/Fiat-500

Hope this helps
Rob

Thank you ?

Morning Pam;I have trawled through most of those sites, but can find nobody who sells the LOWER cups. An alternative would be to find a 2nd hand head on e-bay (complete with springs--essential!) I DO have a complete 2nd hand 500 head, which you are welcome to purchase for a sensible sum (contact me direct if you are interested---- [email protected]). I important detail--check the diameter of your valve stems--they should be 8mm. Earlier 500s had 7mm valve stems, and the cups for these engines would be too small.

Someone makes them, but if the photo shows top and bottom in the kit, they look very similar.....

http://mrfiat.com/italian/fiat/fiat-500/engine/fiat-500-valve-kit-complete.html

Joe R

Hi Pam,
Someone is selling a set on ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-126...=item2866f767d3:g:WsQAAOSws0JahTwI:rk:11:pf:0

tjmra said:

Someone makes them, but if the photo shows top and bottom in the kit, they look very similar.....

http://mrfiat.com/italian/fiat/fiat-500/engine/fiat-500-valve-kit-complete.html

Joe R

Click to expand...

Those are Fiat 500R valves and collets, spot the characteristic triple grooves at the valve stem top. Also no base washers are shown there. The base washers are larger in diameter than the top cap and the centre hole has to fit the O/d of the valve guide.

MOD500 said:

Hi Pam,
Someone is selling a set on ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-126...=item2866f767d3:g:WsQAAOSws0JahTwI:rk:11:pf:0

Click to expand...

Well spotted, but certain sources point towards the 500 lower cups having a smaller inner diameter by 1mm So these would fit but would not be a sufficiently snug fit around the guides.
The cups are few a mm thick and keep the springs centralised. Without that depth the valves would therefore not be kept quite as tightly shut. The chances are that the springs would quickly develop a slight "squint" without the groove to locate them and this would possibly put a strain on them and a sideways thrust on the valves. This would not be good for the springs, valves, guides and valve-seats.
You don't want even the suspicion of a fault in the valve-gear on this engine so I would hold off all bets on any other causes of poor running until this issue is sorted.
I will examine my "stores" tomorrow and see if I can help.

The person selling theses valve collets and cups is 'Lucasz Reszcznski' whose business is 'LP Garage' in Sudbury. Give him a ring on:---01787-313729 or 07979-155040----e-mail:--www.lpgarage.co uk. If you do, feel free to use my name (Tom Montagu) as a contact if you think that it will help. I have dealt with Lucasz many times; if you deal directly with him, you MIGHT get a little bit of discount.

Hi Tom, I'm surprised you didn't mention contacting your friends at Middle Barton Garage (www.middlebartongarage.com) to see if they might have some s/hand valve spring seats they could sell.

They do show valve spring cups for the 500/126 @ £2.88each, but they're out of stock. (To see this illustration >500>valve gear, see item no. 18.) Idk if these are suitable for OP's 500L.
Van der Laan's website shows the 126 valve guide as c.14mm and the 500 as c.13mm so the valve spring seats (valve spring cup) might differ between these two models?
AL.

As I mentioned earlier Al, I had already trawled through a lot of the sites, all to no avail. I have dealt with Lucasz on many occasions and always found him very fair. 2nd hand cups may be the only way to go for 'Pammy'

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all the replies, I spoke to a very helpful guy at ricambio and they sorted us out ?? .

So we are on to the next stage ?

Fingers crossed. I have put some pics on this morning under ‘wish us luck’.

Thanks again you lovely bunch ?