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Old 17-07-2019   #76
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

I had a ride in a 500 with a 650 engine, Panda 30 head & carb and fast road cam. With 3 adults onboard the car pulled really well even on quite a long steep hill. I was very impressed
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Old 17-07-2019   #77
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Greetings - moving on with "SQUISH"
"Squish is an effect in internal combustion engines which creates sudden turbulence of the air-fuel mixture as the piston approaches top dead centre (TDC)".
Getting the Squish band right can improve your engine performance purely by the achievement of good mixture turbulence or swirl in the cylinder that promotes good burning. The 'perfect' squish band is quoted as 0.040" or 1.016mm any smaller may cause the effect to begin too early in the cycle and any larger may cause less of an effect the bigger the space. Problems related to this are detonation, overheating, improper mixture burn and a lack of efficiency and performance. I am told that the smallest measurement is 0.030" and the largest 0.060" either side of the sweet spot. My engine is now running a squish of 0.045" or 1.1430mm we tried to get it perfect but other factors contrived to prevent the achievement of a perfect number.
If you plan on expanding the capacity of your engine at the same time as giving it a performance enhancement crunch the numbers first and for heavens sake measure all the component parts accurately because it may make a big difference. Our main problem was with the capacity of the head, in that it measured 34.2cc having had an unknown amount of material removed previous to my ownership. The required C/R was to be no more than 10.5:1, but when all of the different parts were measured we could only come up with 11.0:1 minimum, and that was a bridge too far for me as I don't want a race engine!!
Essentially we had known stroke and bore numbers and the deck height was known too, but the bits in between were the fly in the ointment. I had supplied a copper head gasket of 81.5mm bore at 0.5mm thick along with three different steel support plates to fit the spigot area of 85.5mm. All were measured accurately and ALL were incorrect - not by much but incorrect all the same. So the final figures if taken at face value would have been wrong. The game began with the selection of support plates to adjust the deck height with or without the head gasket and no matter what the selection was the C/R came out wrong (and too high). In the end we decided to remove a small amount of material (1.5cc) from each piston top to give an increase in capacity, thus we now have a C/R of 10.5:1 and a squish of 1.1430mm (0.045") In fact the removal of the piston material will improve the squish effect below the plug. All in all if you have a head that has not been butchered you can very accurately plan the C/R and squish prior to assembly. Don't just guess and throw it together, have a good idea of what you want to achieve and plan ahead - You know it makes sense
more later.
Ian.

CANNOT UPLOAD PICTURES?? ANYONE ELSE GOT THE PROBLEM????
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Old 18-07-2019   #78
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
I will be fitting a 'Panda30' head onto my 'currently in-build' 695 engine, but instead of fitting the ubiquitous Weber DCOE/Dellorto/Solex twin side-draught carb I am taking a leaf out of the VW tuning book and fitting a Weber 34 ICH single downdraught carb---the same sort they fit to the early 1200/1600 VWs (1 per side). I am led to believe that the jury is still out regarding the benefit of the Panda30 head vis-a-vie the standard head---the ports are a bit too close to each other. Look at the 'after-market' twin-port heads and the inlet ports are definitely further apart, which will give a better 'flow'

After market twin port heads you say?!?!?!……….


Perusal is required I think (or a link mate please)


Rob
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Old 19-07-2019   #79
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

2 suppliers that spring immediately to mind re. 'twin-port' heads for the 500 are:--"D'angelo Motori" and "Lavazza Techno". There are others, but it will take me a bit of time to sort them out (if you want me to)
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Old 19-07-2019   #80
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

2 more suppliers for you---"FD Ricambi" and "www.capassoricambi.it"
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Old 19-07-2019   #81
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
2 more suppliers for you---"FD Ricambi" and "www.capassoricambi.it"

Jesus!...….didn't realise the performance side of these little things was so big...…….
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Old 19-07-2019   #82
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

The other issue with the flow on the panda 30 head is the head bolts are within the cylinder ports which creates unwanted turbulence.
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Old 19-07-2019   #83
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Greetings - had problems uploading pics for the last post so.............
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Old 19-07-2019   #84
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Quote Originally Posted by The Whitakers View Post
Jesus!...….didn't realise the performance side of these little things was so big...…….
Hi Rob, Yes they can be made to perform well - it only takes a wad of cash
Il Motori from Germany sell an 80bhp engine that revs to 8000rpm !!!! I think I would loose my sanity listening to it and it costs €12000 + ouch!!!!
You should be able to find (somewhere) a Panda Head for around £300 to £350 ish
depending on any work done, if you go via a web supplier etc be prepared to double that
Mod 500's post regarding the head studs is valid, but I am informed that given that dome nuts are fitted the turbulence is not too great unless you want hi flow hi output using bigger valves and a faster cam. Also a single port head can be prepared to give the same flow as a Panda head up to 6000rpm and then the panda head flows more and if prepared well will flow even more. It really does depend on what you want in the end.
Ian.
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Old 25-07-2019   #85
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

Greetings - update. Got the flywheel (4.56kg) back on after making sure all the balancing marks line up and then fitted everything onto the engine stand. I'm informed that the crankshaft end-float is now 0.33mm. My engineer considered the upper figure of 0.44mm to be excessive
I proposed to make a start getting the VW adjustable pushrod tubes fitted and that's where I hit the latest snag The overall length is 130mm, but as the pic's show with the rather chunky seals fitted they are far too long and need about 20mm removed from the longer one's and 10mm removed from the small one to allow the head to seat properly. More later.
Ian.
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Old 29-07-2019   #86
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

[QUOTE=Bleeding Knuckles;4489925]
Mod 500's post regarding the head studs is valid, but I am informed that given that dome nuts are fitted the turbulence is not too great unless you want hi flow hi output using bigger valves and a faster cam. QUOTE]


I should have elaborated on my comment. I think the head stud issue on the Panda 30 head is one of the reasons why the aftermarket ones have the inlet ports further apart. It would be an easy problem to overcome if you are designing a new one.


I have seen those push rod tubes for beetles. I like that they are threaded to adjust rather than sprung. Are they good quality? I was hoping to get a set for my build.
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Old 29-07-2019   #87
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

[quote=MOD500;4491359]
Quote Originally Posted by Bleeding Knuckles View Post
Mod 500's post regarding the head studs is valid, but I am informed that given that dome nuts are fitted the turbulence is not too great unless you want hi flow hi output using bigger valves and a faster cam. QUOTE]


I should have elaborated on my comment. I think the head stud issue on the Panda 30 head is one of the reasons why the aftermarket ones have the inlet ports further apart. It would be an easy problem to overcome if you are designing a new one.


I have seen those push rod tubes for beetles. I like that they are threaded to adjust rather than sprung. Are they good quality? I was hoping to get a set for my build.
Hi Mod, Yes I agree the problem with the studs can be overcome, but I am concerned that the otherwise short studs must be even shorter to fit under the modified manifold and they don't look easy to get at either The tubes came from 'Megabug' the lads there are most accommodating. I can confirm that they are good quality, it's a shame that they need shortening to fit the Fiat engine. Make sure that you get a set of the large orange seals too as they are very robust and are a very good fit into the crankcase with a slight fiddle on the head end. I will be using a larger o ring on the threaded end as an oil seal, the supplied one is a little thin!!!!
Ian.
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Old 30-07-2019   #88
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

[quote=Bleeding Knuckles;4491437]
Quote Originally Posted by MOD500 View Post

The tubes came from 'Megabug' the lads there are most accommodating. I can confirm that they are good quality, it's a shame that they need shortening to fit the Fiat engine.
Ian.


I can confirm the MegaBug lads are a good crew, I have bought loads from them in the past (and no doubt will buy more)


Have I not seen these on Fiat sites though for the 500? why buy VW ones if there are fiat ones out there? (it may have just been in one of many weird dreams though)


Rob
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Old 30-07-2019   #89
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

[quote=The Whitakers;4491524]
Quote Originally Posted by Bleeding Knuckles View Post
I can confirm the MegaBug lads are a good crew, I have bought loads from them in the past (and no doubt will buy more)
Have I not seen these on Fiat sites though for the 500? why buy VW ones if there are fiat ones out there? (it may have just been in one of many weird dreams though)
Rob
Morning Rob, One of the rather irritating problems with the 500/126 engine is leaky pushrod tubes The only proper replacement Panda head tube (the lower portion) is very expensive and like most others available rely on a spring to maintain good seal contact at each end. With a simple set of mods the VW tubes will fit, but the main advantage is that they can be manually adjusted up tight and if they leak can be removed if necessary without taking the head off and new seals fitted if required.
Ian.
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Old 30-07-2019   #90
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Re: 704cc 'HOT' Engine Build

The best of the push-rod tubes for a 500/126 engine with a 'normal'head are the spring loaded tubes. These are expensive, compared to the 'normal' push-rod tubes, but they have the great advantage that they can be fitted/removed with the head still in situ (but the push-rods removed). I have a set on my '650' engine and with the thicker of the seals, have not leaked a drop.
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