Following your rebuild with great interest---one is never too wise to not learn more. D'Angelo parts seem to be well made (wouldn't mind their BIG kit for E150, but I, sadly, reckon that is a misprint!). If you do treat yourself to one of their cam-shaft gear-drive sets, ask them if they would do a bit of a discount for 2 sets. If they will, I would VERY seriously consider a kit for my 695 engine. This kit, expensive as it is, might be the way round the poor quality of most of the 'chain-drive' kits currently on the market. Give me a ring so that we can discuss this please.

What's the benefit of fitting this direct drive? I've never heard of a chain snapping and by the time it and the sprockets are worn the engine needs a rebuild anyway. No-one wears out an engine these days! If the system needs the intermediary cog(s) then this must involve a degree of lost movement, as with a chain. It's bound to be noisier. Is is really worth the expense? Unless there's some benefits you will get or weaknesses which will be overcome that I'm not aware of.
It's interesting that you're alerting me to matters and suppliers that this Dumbo has never heard of.[emoji3]

The problem Peter, especially if one is building up a 'well tweaked' engine is the QUALITY of the pattern parts available. Some of the timing-chain kits on the market at the moment are rubbish (and that is the polite version!) which makes it difficult to set-up properly and almost impossible to set up accurately with a degree wheel. Chains have been found to be too long, and some found to be too short. I totally agree with you as regard longevity---I have only suffered one worn out t/c assembly, and that engine had approximately 80 thousand miles on the engine---in fact, how it ran the last few miles I will never be able to work out, the sprockets were that knackered!
However, for the engines that Ian (704cc) and I (695cc) are building, the extra quality, and therefore available accuracy, might justify the cost. Only time will tell.

I have only bought two timing-chain kits in recent years but both have been excellent. They are tight to fit but when you get everything aligned they slip onto the appropriate shafts just right. I've had terrible pattern parts but wouldn't have been able to accept it if engine components were bad.
I accept that there is a massive power increase when a tuned engine is involved, but I think there are some engines around which are in a different league as regards power output which, nonetheless, still use chain-drive.
What I'm driving at is that it seems that for all the expense, a direct drive brings its own problems. Every time the cam -follower moves over the top of the lobe, the thrust on the camshaft is temporarily reversed. The slight slack in a chain will buffer that effect. With cogs, to get it just right you would need some sort of of damper.
I'm all for innovation and things that increase reliability but this one seems odd and unnecessary.

Greetings, update on C/R calculations.
Initial math (subject to accurate final measurements by engineer) gives the following figures -
Bore 80.0mm
Stroke 70.0mm
Cylinder Head capacity 34.2cc
Head gasket of 81.5mm bore x 0.5mm thick
we arrive at a C/R of 10.559:1 which is just about spot on.
This is dependant on a good deck height after adjustment using steel base support plate(s) these will be 85.5mm to fit the cylinder spigot. My engineer and I will endeavour to arrive at the idea squish band of 1.0mm for best running.
The steel support plates add strength to the spigot/crankcase join and are easy to seal preventing any oil loss.

Ian.

Update on crankshaft/bearings and crankcase, further checks have now determined that the important crankshaft end-float is non existent !!! Once the crankshaft assembly is complete and bolted up tight you should check for a clearance of between 0.33 to 0.44mm. This is taken at the crankshaft shoulder and the inner bearing face. I have had the same problem before with my presently fitted engine with the same bearing make and type. There follows some very careful reduction of the bearing contact face using a pane of glass and a sheet of fine wet and dry with light oil to lubricate. It's a faff to have to take it apart work the bearing, clean and reassemble, and then measure multiple times but it's the only way to get it right
My later crankcase (mar 80) has fixed location dowels (or maybe they are stuck in??) that save them getting lost, I've marked the clutch pressure plate position too. I have noted that the barrels are a snug fit into the case which along with the support plates will keep everything together. To help with the overall rigidity of the unit I will apply the sump without a gasket and only silicon sealant.

Ian.

I have a new list of parts to order post Christmas and once all the fuss has died down I'll be getting on with modifying my 4lt alloy sump and oil pick-up. I noted quite a while ago that when hot at 80degC + and at a standstill the oil pressure was steady at between 3.5 and 4.0 bar, but when on the move the pressure dropped to just over 2.0 bar ????? Now, although the pressure is acceptable I did some mental gymnastics and came up with the answer - oil surge So to prevent any future mishaps with the new engine I'm fitting an anti - surge plate inside the sump and an extended oil pick-up. The last thing I want is to press on into a corner and watch the oil pressure slowly drop and the low pressure light to start winking

Ian.

Greetings and a Happy New Year to all,
Carburettor + manifold, Exhaust system and Fan housing + Carb linkage.
My choice of Carb was dictated by size and weight, plus the available manifold(s) and linkage fitting. I did manage to find a NOS Solex PHHE 10 with manifold in Sicily, but the calculation of the carb size (venturi) was the first hurdle to get over I have discovered that the carb is original initial fitment (a pair) on the Group B Citroen Visa II Chrono. This car was homologated on the 1st of October 1982 and had 1360cc. Having also found that most DCOE carbs are very heavy and must have a support to stop then breaking the manifold to carb joint the Solex seemed to give sufficient flexibility even with a fixed barrel/venturi sizing.
Depending on the capacity of the engine and the rpm of the maximum output we can use a single cylinder capacity to give the following -
at 712.54cc we get 356.27cc per cylinder, so using a web sourced chart the following venturi sizes correspond to the rpm required -
@ 6000rpm = 30.5mm
@ 6500rpm = 31.7mm
@ 7000rpm = 34.0mm
given that I do not want to go beyond 7000rpm with a fully balanced engine the carb venturi of 31mm will suffice. I have amassed a great deal of information on the Solex PHH type used in French and Italian cars and collected a range of Main, Idle and Air Corrector jets to suit my application. I did also discover that these carbs prefer to run with the original velocity stacks (ram pipe) so these had to be sourced from Ireland. I will have to modify the existing linkage as the fitted Weber 30 DGF sits on the engine and the Solex will stick out of the side above the fan housing. This should be no problem as I have already found that I can simply move the present linkage pivot down the housing cover away from under the carb. The final fitting up will be commented on at a later stage. The Alloy manifold is milled from a single piece and has been extensively ported and polished, a great deal of material had to be removed. The existing fan housing will be swapped across as it houses an Alloy fan and likewise the present stainless exhaust will be used too. As my present engine is now successfully run-in I will start work on swapping the Solex for the Weber and the fun begins with getting the jetting to a stage where I can get to a rolling road

See you all in 2019.
Ian.

Continuing with the Carb swap - first remove the Weber 30 and manifold then trial fit the Solex after assembly with the spacers and seals
Problem number 1 and not entirely unexpected the underside of the Solex is fouling against the carb linkage pivot assembly So remove everything and take off the fan housing top cover. I had expected there to be limited space below the carb as the manifold is compact, but it's a faff all the same. Once the pivot assembly has been moved it's all back together and further trial fitting even with the ram pipes fitted there is now clearance, but the carb stay and mount (problem 2) had to be 'adjusted' to fit
The whole thing is now very steady but can flex a little around the rubber mount.
I have fitted (after adjustment problem 3) a link arm and balljoint that can now accept the linkage with 8mm ball joints and a 5mm rod (about 20cm long) The link itself will have to be bent (adjusted) slightly to stop it fouling against the carb during operation. Part of the carb stay had to be removed (problem 4) so that the link rod would fit, but it does not affect the stay. The choke cable fits and I've managed to retain the original accelerator cable and pivot as well - I'm all for saving money!!!!! Now onto Mr Ebay for the link rod and final fitting up I'll get back with the first runs using the Solex (hopefully)
Ian.

Ian;
For good quality throttle rod and ball joints, may I recommend 'Burlem Fuels'---these are the SU fuel people. I use their rods (and ball joints--matching pieces) on my engine---never had a problem with the parts. The other beauty of the 'SU' parts is that the throttle rod has L/h thread one end and r/h thread the other; therefore adjusting the rod is a doddle--loosen the locking nuts, twist the rod (as required), do up the lock nuts.

Greetings, Update on the Carb Linkage and problems -
The Link Rod needed to be 200mm with the already mentioned 8mm ball joints, initial fitting confirmed that the rod needed a slight bend to clear the carb body when at rest, but I discovered that as the throttle is opened the link rod moves away from the carb body
The adjustment of the rod length took a while as I needed to get the maximum movement from the throttle cable, it may still need a tweak though. I have used an extra return spring (from a weber link kit) to ensure proper return closure on lift off as I am not entirely sure if the fitted carb spring is man enough over time. In fact the butterfly return spring is just one of several design attributes that the Solex has and I am unaware if other carb makes have the same system??
Suffice to say that there is a clever return spring arrangement fitted between the butterfly end of the choke tubes. With differing manufacturers this type of carb can be used as a number one or two of a pair (basically the forward or rear carb of a pair) can be fitted on the left or right of the engine with corresponding linkage, and can have either of two types of choke (Disc starter) one that is on or off and one that is progressive from fully off to fully on - flexibility indeed! One problem that has reared it's ugly head is that of rod linkage proximity to the number one cylinder plug lead Because my twin coil is mounted on the left side of the engine bay the leads need to run over the fan housing to the plugs. This was not a problem with the Weber carb as that sat on top of the engine. So I have fashioned a rather crude stay from a handy piece of metal to separate the two for now, I think the best idea will be to get some long plug leads and run them over the engine attached to the engine bay roof somehow, that way they will be well clear of any moving parts !!!! I have also noted (to my relief) that I will be able to get the top cover off of the carb whilst it is in place to change jets, larger carb/manifold systems are very close to the bay roof !!!!!

Ian.

Greetings, More regarding carb manifold and fittings.
I have discovered that there is a potential problem with the carb manifold bolt holes in the Panda head in that they are rather shallow, the two inboard holes are the worst giving only 2cm depth at most, so some careful cutting of the bolts was carried out. I will say now that I have chosen to use socket head bolts as they give better room for manoeuvre above the manifold. But with the design of my manifold being cut from one piece of alloy I needed long bolts - finally requiring 2 at 100mm and 1 at 90mm
The fitting up of the cables went ok, but the choke cable inner is too long - I may or may not cut it to fit. I have refitted the fan housing top cover with some silicone sealant to help cut down the air loss during running and the carb stay needed another tweak to allow it all to come together. So I am now at the stage of awaiting a carb synchroniser from mr E.bay before the fun really starts or not!!! The assembly is all fitted after a good clean and blast through with carb cleaner (do it outside or you start to get sleepy!!) Oh and the new engine has just arrived at the balancing man too (don't ask!)
so more news on that soon ????
Ian.

Greetings, all the carb connections are complete with the plug leads secured temporarily. I ordered a synchroniser from the chaps at Eurocarb and have received stunning service of one day turnaround, it is a type SK from STE Germany with a number 18 adaptor to fit the venturi. The first problem became apparent when the fuel pump started running with fuel flowing all over the place - bugger!!! It's a good lesson though as the carb is NOS I should have changed all the seals!!! So after changing the said leaky seals I switched on again - It's Dry - result
The initial carb jetting was arrived at after a great deal of research looking at differing applications of this carb type, suffice to say that I have settled on the following initial set up.
Venturi - 31mm (fixed)
Main jets - 130
Air Corrector jets - 135
Idle jets - 45
Float jet - 1.3
Starter jet - 90
The proof of the pudding moment came when I cranked her over for the first time and lo and behold it started
It may be spluttering a bit (rich) but it runs - the relief could not be tasted due to the exhaust fumes and it was getting difficult to breathe !!!!!!! So open every window and door and let it warm up. Once warm the initial synchro readings were taken (see pics) The airflows are quite close and not bad for a starting point, but I shall give that a tweak before adjusting the mixtures.The higher reading will be reduced to match the lower. I did rev the engine a tad once warm and I'm pleased that it seems to accelerate well too. I'll get back with adjustments later.
Ian.

Incredible!
I often wonder where enthusiasts that aren’t mechanics get this level of mechanical knowledge from (although perhaps some professional experience coming into play here?

BambinoClassic said:

Incredible!
I often wonder where enthusiasts that aren’t mechanics get this level of mechanical knowledge from (although perhaps some professional experience coming into play here?

Click to expand...

Hi BC, I've always had an interest with things mechanical and tinkering with cars etc, But the military taught me some stuff and pilot training covers a lot of theory too. Reading and absorbing information has helped along the way.
Ian.

Hi Ian,

I don't know why you invested in a carb. syhchroniser, don'tcha know that all classic car mechanics traditionally used a length of tubing held up to their ear...
although it might be possible/safer to use modern electronic equipment to instead measure the frequency? of the sound of the air being drawn into the carb.
Too late for me, I'm going deaf....

I would have suggested a different type of carb synchroniser - went looking online for an illustration/supplier and found

www.holder.co.uk

(see carb. synchroniser part no. 090.043 @ £26.92 + vat),
unfortunately they out of stock at present. The advantage of this type is that it incorporates a baffle allowing you to get the float in the middle of the scale which makes for more accurate interpretation of the reading and the float tube can be swivelled to set it vertically regardless of carb intake angle.

This website ^^^ is imho well worth a look as they have lots of tools and bits/pieces relevant to those who work on a classic car. This Co. is also a Morgan Dealer for the Midlands? (so likely good people!).


I'm wondering about the slight difference in the readings on your synchroniser? Aren't the two throttle plates attached to the one fixed throttle shaft i.e. no adjustment? If so, the difference in readings is possibly down to slightly different idle mixture settings? Iirc this carb has separate idle mixture volume? adjusting screws for each choke?
(I've no manual to hand to check)

Maybe the use of 2 x Colourtune devices (transparent 'spark plug' to allow sight of flame colour which is a visual indication of mixture strength) might be useful or alternatively use of an exhaust gas analyser although iirc you're just doing some initial work before bringing the car to a rolling road?

Anyway, you're making great progress
Well done on the neatness of your bracketry and problem solving as you go along. Very impressive

AL.

F123C said:

I'm wondering about the slight difference in the readings on your synchroniser? Aren't the two throttle plates attached to the one fixed throttle shaft i.e. no adjustment? If so, the difference in readings is possibly down to slightly different idle mixture settings? Iirc this carb has separate idle mixture volume? adjusting screws for each choke?
.

Click to expand...

Hi Al, Thanks for the kind words - appreciated. You are correct in saying that the two choke butterflies are on one shaft and I've had to discount any wear on this shaft as it's new!!! I will have to adjust the mixture, and depending on the result will change the Idle jets and go down a size or two if things remain rich. Regarding the airflow, with this carb you also have a separate adjustment screw for the "Throttle air bypass" so I should be able to balance the airflow with this, If not there is also the method of checking the airflow downstream of the butterflies utilising a small pipe and fitting a Morgan Carbtune which senses the airflow and shows it on a vertical tube with liquid in it against a graph. I do have a colourtune too and that will get things more finely adjusted before the rolling road visit. I'll take a look at the website you mention as there may be some stuff I need.

Ian.

I think Al meant HOLDEN and NOT Holder---try them on:[email protected] I have used them on a number of occasions and their service is first class, as id the quality of the products that they sell.

the hobbler said:

I think Al meant HOLDEN and NOT Holder---try them on:[email protected] I have used them on a number of occasions and their service is first class, as id the quality of the products that they sell.

Click to expand...

Mea Culpa

Thanks Tom, for the correction.
I'm glad someone was paying attention, I obviously wasn't...

I've seen the adverts from Holden Classic and Vintage over many years in the U.K. car magazines, never paid much attention and only recently checked out their website - it's a treasure trove!
I noticed that several interesting items in the tool section were 'awaiting stock' but they do offer the facility to quickly leave an email address so as to be sent a notification when items are again in stock.

Al.

I've been burning the midnight oil of late, mainly because I need to be sure of the steps required to get my carb running well. One thing I do need to do is to be sure of documenting every step taken. The main steps are as follows -
1. Balance the airflow between the carb venturi, this is contentious because the adjusting screws (Air Bypass) are set at manufacture and then blocked with wax.
2. Adjust both venturi idle Volume mixtures to give good running on each cylinder.
3. The clean progession from the idle circuit to the main circuit is difficult to achieve without a rolling road, but as I am only trying to get the car drivable at this point a rough setting will do to start with. A change in the Idle jet may be required.
4. Main jet performance can be metered by slowly increasing the jet size until approx 3/4 load can no longer be achieved. then the jetting should be reduced in size until 75% of peak revs cannot be maintained (best consumption)
5. At the stage above a smaller air corrector jet should be fitted to richen up the mixture under full load. But it may be necessary to fit a larger Main jet if the Part load running is too weak, when the correct throttle response is gained a larger Air corrector jet should be fitted to give the best mixture for maximum performance. Don't forget that the accelerator pump could change the setting too and to avoid too many factors at once I've left the pump as set by the factory and keeping my fingers crossed !! The pump jet will remain set too as most other settings found only use one size. One problem with this carb is that the Main jets and the pump jet are situated inside the bottom access plate which means the carb has to be removed to get at them. But as I have only four bolts and the linkage to remove it shouldn't take long. It should be noted that only a rolling road and an exhaust gas analyser can get this exact, but to save time and money I need to get as close as possible. I'll get back with progress later.
Ian.