Technical Oil cooler installation

[gordinir8]

I am opening this thread because i am thinking to install an oil cooler. I know i know little car can handle the heat without it but i want to give it a try, a few degrees lower is not bad for the Greek weather. I am not going to overengineer it with extra filters etc, just a simple oil radiator at the back of the engine bay with simple rubber hoses. I know that there are special 400 euro kits available out there but i have decided to go cheap and full custom and weld an output union adapter at the chain cover back. I have reed here that you have to block one of two oil pump hollow gears and then drill a 2.5mm hole. So my question is if after this oil path restriction is the oil amount sufficient to lubricate the engine?

Thomas

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

I am opening this thread because i am thinking to install an oil cooler. I know i know little car can handle the heat without it but i want to give it a try, a few degrees lower is not bad for the Greek weather. I am not going to overengineer it with extra filters etc, just a simple oil radiator at the back of the engine bay with simple rubber hoses. I know that there are special 400 euro kits available out there but i have decided to go cheap and full custom and weld an output union adapter at the chain cover back. I have reed here that you have to block one of two oil pump hollow gears and then drill a 2.5mm hole. So my question is if after this oil path restriction is the oil amount sufficient to lubricate the engine?

Thomas

Hello Thomas, I have a spin-on filter adaptor and cooler system with fan on my car and I use the mod you mention. At 80 - 90degC I have just over 2bar oil pressure using Mobil 1 10W 60 oil.

Ian.

 

[gordinir8]

Ian hi, i have seen your installation before and i like it but i am going to use less parts and put the cooler at the same position as yours. I wonder if you saw any difference with the cooler along and what happens when the fan is on. How much effective are all those mods and what is the average temp you get. Today for instance with 36 Celsius outside temp and driving at low speeds in the city it got around 90-100 Celsius

Thomas

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Ian hi, i have seen your installation before and i like it but i am going to use less parts and put the cooler at the same position as yours. I wonder if you saw any difference with the cooler along and what happens when the fan is on. How much effective are all those mods and what is the average temp you get. Today for instance with 36 Celsius outside temp and driving at low speeds in the city it got around 90-100 Celsius

Thomas

Hi Thomas, With the cooler alone ( I use a rubber scoop on the alternator lower plate) the airflow did keep the oil cooler than without, But with the fan I have been able to run with ambient temperatures of 30+degC and maintain just above 80degC !!!! I am using a 4ltr alloy sump too. I am looking to wrap the front exhaust down pipe with kevlar wrapping as the difference at the rear down pipe is considerable, keeping the engine bay temperatures down.
Ian.

 

[gordinir8]

Just above 80 sounds very good. I reached 115 this summer while "climbing" a mountain.

 

[nathanrobo]

I fitted a kit a few years ago in the vent / void above the engine room. The idea was that the airstream from over the car is pulled through the vent below the rear window by the engine's fan. A cooler here, benefits from air that is already being pulled in and it also allows you to conceal the cooler (other than the flow return hoses).

 

[gordinir8]

So as i said i will weld an output on the timing chain cover and screw a union there to connect the hoses. There is also an alen screw in the engine block that i will remove to put the return line union there. Question is, how big the hole on the timing chain cover has to be and what size of union ID shall i use? I am not sure but the alen screw looks like M8 size to me so that restrict the return line union to 6mm, is this enough or shall i rework the hole and put bigger union?
Thomas

 

[the hobbler]

I saw the car that Nathan fitted the oil-cooler radiator into the space above the engine bay (behind the grill, under the rear screen).It made for a very tidy installation, but it does help if your 500 has the small number of LARGE holes behind the grill, rather than the large number of SMALL holes--much easier to fit the radiator into the space. If the piping is led tidily round to the engine,much neater than the radiator plonked (sorry, installed) onto the engine lid supports. It is also guaranteed a steady flow of cold air, because the engine fan is drawing air into that chamber prior to the air going through the fan.

 

[fiat500]

I saw the car that Nathan fitted the oil-cooler radiator into the space above the engine bay.
It is also guaranteed a steady flow of cold air, because the engine fan is drawing air into that chamber prior to the air going through the fan.

That sounds like an elegant solution until you consider the outcomes.
Any heat which is removed from the oil by transfer to the intake air will then be in the air that is blown over the engine.
The presence of the radiator and pipework will impede the air movement and put more strain on the impeller.
That additional strain will mean the engine has to work a bit harder for any given output and this will create more heat.
I'm not a specialist in thermodynamics (or anything else[emoji3]), but I'm dubious about the effectiveness of this arrangement.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

So as i said i will weld an output on the timing chain cover and screw a union there to connect the hoses. There is also an alen screw in the engine block that i will remove to put the return line union there. Question is, how big the hole on the timing chain cover has to be and what size of union ID shall i use? I am not sure but the alen screw looks like M8 size to me so that restrict the return line union to 6mm, is this enough or shall i rework the hole and put bigger union?
Thomas

Hi Thomas, you will see from the pic that I have had to use an adaptor to fit my pipework to the filter and the crankcase return. If you check the following thread "Oil Cooler Mod" it will tell you all the sizes you will need for the work. I would advise you to start with an appropriate cooler size for the job and check the union sizes before you need to get adaptors. the pipe size can be quite large to give high volume low pressure flow, the pipework can be fitted as you wish, but ensure that you obtain plenty as it is all too easy to end up with a short pipe!!!!! If you need any more details of my kit let me know by PM and I shall get the information for you.
Ian.

 

[gordinir8]

That sounds like an elegant solution until you consider the outcomes.
Any heat which is removed from the oil by transfer to the intake air will then be in the air that is blown over the engine.
The presence of the radiator and pipework will impede the air movement and put more strain on the impeller.
That additional strain will mean the engine has to work a bit harder for any given output and this will create more heat.
I'm not a specialist in thermodynamics (or anything else[emoji3]), but I'm dubious about the effectiveness of this arrangement.

I will agree with you Peter, My Renault 8 gordini use to have the oil cooler before the radiator but we are talking for different volumes here, in 500 with such a tight space i don't like this configuration also. I think that install it at the left side of the engine bay (cold side) and with the lid a little open it will be sufficient.

 

[gordinir8]

Hi Thomas, you will see from the pic that I have had to use an adaptor to fit my pipework to the filter and the crankcase return. If you check the following thread "Oil Cooler Mod" it will tell you all the sizes you will need for the work. I would advise you to start with an appropriate cooler size for the job and check the union sizes before you need to get adaptors. the pipe size can be quite large to give high volume low pressure flow, the pipework can be fitted as you wish, but ensure that you obtain plenty as it is all too easy to end up with a short pipe!!!!! If you need any more details of my kit let me know by PM and I shall get the information for you.
Ian.

Thank you Ian, you have used M12 fittings but i am not sure for the one that goes to the engine block, i will try and remove that alen screw to see what size it is.

 

[fiat500]

I will agree with you Peter, My Renault 8 gordini use to have the oil cooler before the radiator but we are talking for different volumes here, in 500 with such a tight space i don't like this configuration also. I think that install it at the left side of the engine bay (cold side) and with the lid a little open it will be sufficient.

I think that in some situations, one of the problems with fitting an oil-cooler is just that... it's seen as a very "cool" thing to have and so it has to be "seen".[emoji3]
Ideally you might want to fit one at the front of the car but obviously that would look terrible. It could be inside the front boot area with a scoop or grllle cut into the bodywork. It might fit somewhere in the underbody where the steering lies, but that could be a dodgy place for a radiator.
Any location at the front incurs installng long pipe-runs with the increasing danger of somewhere to burst or leak oil.
If I did this I would try to fit it under the rear floor, away from the exhaust. There it would get a good flow of cooling air and it's surprisingly clean and dry under there.
(Even on my car) [emoji3]

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Thank you Ian, you have used M12 fittings but i am not sure for the one that goes to the engine block, i will try and remove that alen screw to see what size it is.

Hi Thomas, I have just measured my old crankcase plug and the size IS M12 x 1.5 The allen key needed for mine was 6.5mm but my plug is worn. Be very very careful when you remove the plug, make sure you have a good tight fit as the material is very soft apply gentle pressure and increase as required carefully or you will rip it out
Ian.

 

[gordinir8]

Hi Thomas, I have just measured my old crankcase plug and the size IS M12 x 1.5 The allen key needed for mine was 6.5mm but my plug is worn. Be very very careful when you remove the plug, make sure you have a good tight fit as the material is very soft apply gentle pressure and increase as required carefully or you will rip it out
Ian.

Ian i didn't get this, crankcase fitting is M6 one one side to M12 on the other side or you have rework the 6.5mm hole to bigger with new threads?

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Ian i didn't get this, crankcase fitting is M6 one one side to M12 on the other side or you have rework the 6.5mm hole to bigger with new threads?

Hi Thomas, I don't understand it either, but all I can say is the original plug I have removed from the crankcase to return the oil is M12 x 1.5 I have not made any changes to the size
Ian.

 

[gordinir8]

I think that in some situations, one of the problems with fitting an oil-cooler is just that... it's seen as a very "cool" thing to have and so it has to be "seen".[emoji3]

I will give a 30% to the ''looks cool'' factor and the rest 70% to engine cooling in my case I think that in a stock engine it will be effective even if it is not located in the most sufficient place. During winter engine temp is just bellow to 80 Celsius, at summer around 100 or 110 in traffic and 115 at big hills. My goal is to keep it during summer at 90-95. If i don't manage it at first place i might use a scoop, a fan or a different location. Little car can keep you busy for a long time if you are looking for trouble.

 

[gordinir8]

Hi Thomas, I don't understand it either, but all I can say is the original plug I have removed from the crankcase to return the oil is M12 x 1.5 I have not made any changes to the size
Ian.

Ian removed the plug (it was dead easy) and found it 12x1.5 thread 6mm allen key. I thought it was M6 So M12X1.5 fittings at you said
Probably gonna start it next month, i will cover it with photos for anyone else interested.
Thomas

 

[AndrewHarvey]

My cooler is fitted under the car with a venturi duct to push air over the core when moving

 

[gordinir8]

Speaking of those oil coolers located under the car, is there any photos available to get the idea? Also can i use a transmission oil cooler? Many of the small available oil coolers that i am looking for are transmission coolers.
Thomas