Greetings, noticed this on the Which web site -
The Department for Transport (DfT) has launched a consultation on its proposal for the UK’s larger forecourts to begin selling E10 petrol, a cleaner fuel, in order to meet climate change targets. However, research has shown that as many as 634,309 petrol cars currently on the road will be incompatible with it. E10 petrol contains 10% bioethanol, a type of renewable fuel, to reduce carbon when burned – that’s twice the amount of the 5% maximum currently found in the petrol at your local pumps.

Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/0...ible-with-some-of-britains-most-popular-cars/ - Which?
Looks like some may have a problem in the future

Ian.

Someone will come up with an additive or some kind of modification to allow this fuel to be used, I'm sure.

Personally I don't think there figure's add up
While it does produce less Co2 when it Burns it also produces less power meaning more file is needed for the same distance essentially so will take out some of the proposed savings

chris3234 said:

Personally I don't think there figure's add up
While it does produce less Co2 when it Burns it also produces less power meaning more file is needed for the same distance essentially so will take out some of the proposed savings

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Having now covered well over 1,000 miles on E10, despite not yet taking accurate readings, I do get the feeling I'm using more fuel per mile; I'll do a proper check soon. But overall, I'm really impressed with the way the engine is handling the fuel. I had up-sized the idle jet from 0.45 to 0.5mm a short time prior to E10 and I think that may have helped. Performance is better than it's ever been, plugs are just the right colour, idling is very smooth and even, no overheating (but it is nearly winter) and even the exhaust and engine smells are good.

So 1,000 miles and no mishaps. In the very unlikely event that as a result of using this fuel my engine gave up in another 1,000 miles that would be an undesirable inconvenience. I suspect that for many Fiat 500 owners, a serious engine problem after 2,000 miles would be someone else's problem.

Your 'gut' feelings are correct Peter--an engine using E10 IS less efficient, in that it does use more fuel, which somehow seems to me that it is defeating the whole point of the excercise! The only people to gain are the government, because you will have to buy more fuel to cover the same distance!
Eklipze3k:---there are already a number of products on the shelf which will help mitigate the side effects of the ethanol in E10

the hobbler said:

there are already a number of products on the shelf which will help mitigate the side effects of the ethanol in E10

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Exactly, look towards the marine industry. Again, availability depends on "geographics", but over here there a few products that are considered "ethanol neutralizers" / eliminators. Ethanol is much more of a problem in the marine industry, and the amount of issues it has caused is 10 fold.

I will say, one of the plus sides to ethanol'ed fuels is the theoretically higher octane rating if you have an engine that can use it. On the bench i have a classic Mercedes 5.6L M117 engine that i am working on putting full EFI, and supercharged. I am honestly looking forward to the availability of E85 and higher blends to experiment with as ethanol fuels really shine in forced induction systems. The addition of a flex-fuel sensor helps the standalone ecu calibrate fuel maps based on ethanol content. Again, irrelevant to our 500's, but the ethanol battle will be a hard one to fight when govt's do as they please to the public.

We've been living with E10 fuel for many years here in the states. I use a product called Startron which is supposed to help neutralize the ethanol.

Honestly, haven't had any problems with the rubber breaking down in my older cars, but I always make sure to drive them at least once every two weeks. They say cars that are stored over the winter can have more trouble.

Fuel mileage is a little diminished, but the 500 still returns astounding fuel mileage.

Some motorists have worked out a "brilliant" way to improve fuel economy with E10, as reported in A Birmingham paper. You fill your tank 50:50 with E5 and gain a few mpg.

Wha they are forgetting is that the E5 will be more expensive and fuel economy is really about miles per penny.

fiat500 said:

Some motorists have worked out a "brilliant" way to improve fuel economy with E10, as reported in A Birmingham paper. You fill your tank 50:50 with E5 and gain a few mpg.

Wha they are forgetting is that the E5 will be more expensive and fuel economy is really about miles per penny.

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I did an accurate check on fuel consumption since my last fill and it's only 45mpg. In the past I've recorded 55+mpg, admittedly on the slightly bigger engine and when driving more regularly over longer runs. It still looks likely that consumption may have increased partly dues to E10.....I'll keep monitoring although pretty pointless as we're stuck with the stuff.

fiat500 said:

I did an accurate check on fuel consumption since my last fill and it's only 45mpg. In the past I've recorded 55+mpg, admittedly on the slightly bigger engine and when driving more regularly over longer runs. It still looks likely that consumption may have increased partly dues to E10.....I'll keep monitoring although pretty pointless as we're stuck with the stuff.

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E10 is very noticably less good for economy and your figures mirror my experience. I dont like the poor performance and am not using it again unless there is nothing else. Things that make a car run worse are unlikely to have anything but a negative effect on engo

fiat500 said:

I did an accurate check on fuel consumption since my last fill and it's only 45mpg. In the past I've recorded 55+mpg, admittedly on the slightly bigger engine and when driving more regularly over longer runs. It still looks likely that consumption may have increased partly dues to E10.....I'll keep monitoring although pretty pointless as we're stuck with the stuff.

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fiat500 said:

I did an accurate check on fuel consumption since my last fill and it's only 45mpg. In the past I've recorded 55+mpg, admittedly on the slightly bigger engine and when driving more regularly over longer runs. It still looks likely that consumption may have increased partly dues to E10.....I'll keep monitoring although pretty pointless as we're stuck with the stuff.

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Things that make an engine run poorly have never been an aid to reliability or engine life. If you have to run around with your foot pushed into the carpet I fail to see how it is an environmental benefit... I drive as economically as I can to avoiding paying taxes to fund tory party drinks parties and to save me money. Its likely to be worse for the environment than burning more of a poorer fuel. Basic physics at work here! If you burn more fuel you create more exhaust. Nothing anyone says about E5 can get around this fact. If you burn 5.000001% more E10 than E5 its worse or at best no better.

fiat500 said:

I did an accurate check on fuel consumption since my last fill and it's only 45mpg. In the past I've recorded 55+mpg, admittedly on the slightly bigger engine and when driving more regularly over longer runs. It still looks likely that consumption may have increased partly dues to E10.....I'll keep monitoring although pretty pointless as we're stuck with the stuff.

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You are not alone, I used to get regular 48 mpg pre E10 now it's a regular 42 mpg with E10, that's progress I guess (I'm a panda not 500 but same principle)

I have switched to Super grade E5 in my Panda TA, it has improved economy by 10%, runs better, pulls harder and generally the engine works way nicer. The price difference per litre is soon clawed back in the improved consumption and better satisfaction. I have come to the conclusion that E10 is a huge own goal environmentally but a great way for the government to earn extra tax revenue.

dragonwagon said:

I have switched to Super grade E5 in my Panda TA, it has improved economy by 10%, runs better, pulls harder and generally the engine works way nicer. The price difference per litre is soon clawed back in the improved consumption and better satisfaction. I have come to the conclusion that E10 is a huge own goal environmentally but a great way for the government to earn extra tax revenue.

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According to Esso's own web-site, in the greater part of the UK their "99 octane super" is, despite what it says on the pump, ethanol free! However, I would suggest that a dose of "anti-ethanol juice" is still added to the fuel.

the hobbler said:

According to Esso's own web-site, in the greater part of the UK their "99 octane super" is, despite what it says on the pump, ethanol free! However, I would suggest that a dose of "anti-ethanol juice" is still added to the fuel.

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Tesco Momentum 99 must be quite high in ethanol though - I had a Subaru which was designed to run on 100 RON only, and it was fine on most other 99s (or even standard 'Super' with a bit of care) but used to splutter like it had been fed cold soup if it was run on Momentum.

With the old air cooled 500 the octane rating is not that vital. It can run quite happily on very low grade fuel but I'll be intersted to know how my Abarth Mille engined 850 Sport will fare (once rebuilt!!) on the current gloop passing for petrol. Way back when it wasn't overly keen on the old 101 octane 5 star - it only ran properly on 130 octane race fuel.

dragonwagon said:

With the old air cooled 500 the octane rating is not that vital. It can run quite happily on very low grade fuel but I'll be intersted to know how my Abarth Mille engined 850 Sport will fare (once rebuilt!!) on the current gloop passing for petrol. Way back when it wasn't overly keen on the old 101 octane 5 star - it only ran properly on 130 octane race fuel.

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You might have some problems then---as far as I know, the best you can buy at the pump is not quite 100 octane. However, there are companies who will sell you high octane racing fuel, but you have to buy it in quite large quantaties.