Hello all. I am new here. I am Swedish and living in Switzerland. .

I just bought a 1969 500 si I am sure that you will hear from me a lot in the future with questions.

My car was sold to me as an original car. I have however realised that the engine is not the standard one. 600 or 650 i guess. It has 28mm carb, starter on the left side of the engine and synchronized 2,3 and 4th gear so to me it as a 126 engine. How do I found out what it us? Where is the engine identification written on the crank case? What do you think about the none original engine? How does it effect the value of the car and is it worth less or more then a stock car. Feeling like the seller did not tell the whole truth about the car and I am not happy with that. I want to hear your opinions

vij said:

Hello all. I am new here. I am Swedish and living in Switzerland. .

I just bought a 1969 500 si I am sure that you will hear from me a lot in the future with questions.

My car was sold to me as an original car. I have however realised that the engine is not the standard one. 600 or 650 i guess. It has 28mm carb, starter on the left side of the engine and synchronized 2,3 and 4th gear so to me it as a 126 engine. How do I found out what it us? Where is the engine identification written on the crank case? What do you think about the none original engine? How does it effect the value of the car and is it worth less or more then a stock car. Feeling like the seller did not tell the whole truth about the car and I am not happy with that. I want to hear your opinions

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Hi and welcome!!

If you look on the block behind the fan belt near the fuel pump you will see the engine number. An original 500 would normally have an engine number starting 110F and a 650 would be 126a. I think I am right on the 650 number, if not someone will correct me.

A 100% original car is always going to attract more money. I don’t know what the classic car market is like in Switzerland but certainly in the UK the purists will want an original car. But the market for the purists is going to be much smaller.

Because the 500 is still a very trendy little car there is definitely a market for people who want a car that is easier to drive and has a little bit more power to keep up with modern traffic, so a 500 with a 650 engine, synchro gearbox and maybe disk brake upgrade will more than likely find a bigger market place. So many 500’s have been converted to 650 or tuned up in some way that there really aren’t that many original cars about.

Tony

Tony is basically correct----a 594cc (early 126/500R) will have an engine type of "126A"----the Mk2 126, with 652cc engine will have an engine type of "126A1". As Tony says, the purist would look for a completely original car, but with modern traffic the way that it is, the performance of the original 500 engine can make the car a bit of a liability (the 500, even when new, was never a ball of fire!). therefore, fitting an uprated engine, albeit a 600 or a 650cc engine will make for less stressful driving in traffic. As well as uprating performance, it is quite common to find that the brakes have also been uprated. The easiest way to do this is to fit Mk2 126 brakes (don't forget, the 126 was a bit heavier than the 500). If this has been done, the wheels will have a 98pcd wheel bolt pattern---in simple terms, the wheel bolt pattern will look 'normal' as against the Fiat 500 wheels where the wheel bolts will seem to be "1 at each corner" (a 190pcd). Unless the 126 engine is well tuned, the Mk2 126 drum brakes will be perfectly adequate---they only need to be upgraded to discs (front only--not required on the rear) when a tuned engine is fitted.
If you have synchro on 2nd, 3rd and 4th you definitely have a 126 gear-box, especially as you say the starter is on the side (right side LOOKING FROM THE BACK). Just remember, with no synchro on 1st, it is not recommended that you select 1st gear unless the car is stationary. 1 little dodge--- when the car is stationary (and the engine idling) 1st of all briefly select 2nd gear, and then slot it into 1st gear.
Value difference? Yes, an ABSOLUTELY 'original' car will probably be worth more than an 'up-rated' car, but probably not by much---and how many 500s these days are ABSOLUTELY original? Probably not many; that well known enemy of the 500, the 'tin-worm' has most probably been very active which will mean that some body panels are modern 'pattern' parts, which are made of a thinner gauge and 'not quite the same shape!'
My advice is this---if the car drives well, puts a smile on your face and, to use that well known (English) expression "does what it says on the can", use it and enjoy it.

I am actually very happy with how the car drive and I remember that I was surpriced the first time I was driving the car as it was faster then I thought it would be. Funny little machine. I dont think that i would like to have the original engine. I still dont know what engine it has as the engine number has been removed. I will check in the winter then i will take the heads of the engine to check the inside a bit.

Jocke.

The fact that the engine has no engine number/type would indicate that the engine's crankcase is not the engine's original (I have run into this situation myself). The only way left to you to find out which engine has been fitted is, as you have already planned, to remove the heads over the winter and measure the bore----73.5mm for the 594cc engine and, 77.0mm for the 652cc engine.
Which ever engine is fitted, may I suggest that you use a 0.5mm copper head gasket when you refit the heads--it will help raise the compression ratio a little bit.
Whatever engine you do have, drive it and enjoy it.

There should be ‘650’ stamped on the cylinder head

124spiderman said:

There should be ‘650’ stamped on the cylinder head

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Any idea where?