Hi,
Could someone tell me how to remove the front brake drum after I have removed the axle stub nut ?
Thanks
Darryl

From memory I just used some gentle hammering, levering/prising round the edges with screwdrivers and a pit of pulling/brute force...if that is any help ? I found the harder part getting the torque right and peening the nut when putting it together again.

Be prepared to catch the outer taper roller bearing and the special washer (that locates in the groove on the stub axle) as you start to remove the front brake drum.

Also, sometimes as you pull off the drum, the inner bearing and grease seal remain behind on the stub axle. These will need to be pulled off and refitted to the brake drum before you refit the brake drum.

AL.

You should find that it is the pads that are sticking on the wear lip of the drum due to the rather simplistic self adjusters on the pads....


The problem I am having is getting them to re-adjust back up after changing the pads and renewing the fluid........pedal is 2/3rds down before they start to grip to the drums........

This is a recurring problem people seem to be having. Have you renewed the brake-shoe return springs? if you have, that is likely to be the main cause of your problem. The 'pattern' springs are shorter than the original, and when extended (because you are using the brakes), due to their shortness, put too much 'return' load on them which in turn overcomes the friction of the automatic adjusters. The tricks are to (a) use the old springs wherever possible or, (b) stretch the new springs (carefully!) until they are the same length as the original springs. (c) make sure the handbrake is correctly adjusted (3 clicks--just) and (d) if you have 500 (as against 126) brakes on your car, use the brake shoes marketed by MBG--they have had a batch re-lined by Ferodo to the correct thickness--- on a lot of the 'pattern' shoes the lining is thinner than the original factory parts.
Lastly, an old trick---on a CLEAR bit of road, reverse the car quite fast and STAND ON THE BRAKES as hard as you can a few times---amazingly, this can actually bring the pedal back up a bit.

the hobbler said:

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Lastly, an old trick---on a CLEAR bit of road, reverse the car quite fast and STAND ON THE BRAKES as hard as you can a few times---amazingly, this can actually bring the pedal back up a bit.

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When I worked for a Fiat Main Dealer, every Mechanic did this as a matter of course on 500, 126, 600, 850 models i.e. everything fitted with this type of 'automatic' ) ) brake adjuster.

And, I don't know why this technique works, it just does.

AL.

New Magnetti Marrelli pads, existing springs, handbrake fully down on the adjusters and 3 clicks if you have arms like popeye, all handbrake levers and original springs cleaned up and refitted..........


Looks like it's flat out in reverse a few times then

Thanks for those replies, I will adjust the handbrake when finished. I see where the two bolts are on the rear arms, which way do the bolts get adjusted ?

F123C said:

When I worked for a Fiat Main Dealer, every Mechanic did this as a matter of course on 500, 126, 600, 850 models i.e. everything fitted with this type of 'automatic' ) ) brake adjuster.

And, I don't know why this technique works, it just does.

AL.

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The geometry of the shoes and drum tends to pull the leading shoe on when going forward. When applied in reverse the leading and trailing shoes reverse and transfer more force to the adjusters.
Bit of info here:
http://what-when-how.com/automobile/drum-brakes-automobile/


Robert G8RPI.

dk500 said:

Thanks for those replies, I will adjust the handbrake when finished. I see where the two bolts are on the rear arms, which way do the bolts get adjusted ?

Click to expand...

Basically the 2 nuts need to be wound right to the end away from the drum, this in effect makes the cable longer allowing the brakes off.....


My advice would be to totally remove these and clean them right up to make adjusting easier, it's a bit fiddly in the first instance but adjustment is so mush easier. afterwards a good dose of copper ease to stop further rusting up....

For removing the drums my advise would be to try and keep rotating the drums as you pull them off. Also try to keep them parallel with the back plate as they come off. If they stick, tap them gently fore and aft to try and retract the brake shoe adjusters, but do not be tempted to bash them hard or lever them as this will distort the back plates. If they stick, push them back on, get them rotating freely and then try again to rotate and ease off by hand.

Spent last night going backwards and forwards and jumping on the brakes........not much difference to be honest.......they work but the pedal goes down half way before anything happens........I'll have a better look again at the weekend......

The Whitakers said:

Spent last night going backwards and forwards and jumping on the brakes........not much difference to be honest.......they work but the pedal goes down half way before anything happens........I'll have a better look again at the weekend......

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Did you ever get this situated? I’m having the same issue. Brakes only work the last 3rd of the pedal. If I clamp down on one of the front brake hoses, the pedal pressure is much higher! And I put the old return springs on after I fitted new pads.... so frustrating!

ChiapC said:

Did you ever get this situated? I’m having the same issue. Brakes only work the last 3rd of the pedal. If I clamp down on one of the front brake hoses, the pedal pressure is much higher! And I put the old return springs on after I fitted new pads.... so frustrating!

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Have you gotten all the air out of the front brakes?

I'd suggest removing the drum on the offending wheel and, using levers between the hub flange and the brake shoes, try levering the shoes outwards a little. The brake shoes should remain where they are moved to, if the adjusters are holding correctly. If the shoes slip inwards, the adjusters aren't working properly.

The usual cause of this is, as you've already discovered, is the return springs are either too strong or too short.(= same result). Some here recommend stretching new springs so that they are approx. 6mm longer than they were, others recommend just re-fitting the original springs. There also seems to be some difference in 'gripping power' between the 3? different styles of brake shoe adjuster used at different times. Some of these adjusters can be dismantled.
I've tried various dodges to get the adjusters to grip more effectively.....

Things I tried :-
1) Increased the spring force in the adjuster
2) Cleaned off any paint on the brake shoe in the region of the adjuster
3) Ditto, but caused the brake shoe to rust where the adjuster fits (Baker's Soldering Fluid or Phosphoric? Acid will cause steel to rust rapidly)to improve grip
4) Tried dimpling the brake shoe in the region of the adjuster using a centre (dot) punch to try to improve grip
5) Tried putting grooves on the brake shoe in the region of the adjuster using a cold chisel to try to improve grip
6) Tried sanding the hard friction on the adjusters to improve grip
7) Tried replacing the hard friction washers on the adjusters with regular fibre washers.

Best and easiest solution was to simply source and fit softer (less powerful) return springs so that the brake shoe adjusters could do their job and not be overwhelmed by return springs that are too strong.

Be careful that no lubricant gets between the brake adjuster and the brake shoe - or they'll never grip/work.

Al.

I appreciate the input! I was able to get it situated today. As I was inspecting the drivers front brake setup and switching out the springs to the old ones (that was the only wheel I left the new springs on) I saw there was a pinhole leak on the boot of the brake cylinder. Fluid would every so slowly seep out. I happened to have a spare brake cylinder, which was Brembo. Installed that with the old springs, and voila!!! A solid brake pedal!

ChiapC said:

Did you ever get this situated? I’m having the same issue. Brakes only work the last 3rd of the pedal. If I clamp down on one of the front brake hoses, the pedal pressure is much higher! And I put the old return springs on after I fitted new pads.... so frustrating!

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No I haven't, I had to use the handbrake to stop at one point so the car hasn't moved since.....It's on my list to do......