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Old 10-02-2018   #1
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Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Urgent Help Required from the great and good on here
To make a loooong story short I've completed the rebuild of gearbox and engine and put everything back together, charged the battery, new fuel (tesco 99), key in and after a turn or two she fires and runs sweetly. Boy, what a moment that was HOWEVER, after running the car and completing a short steady drive to test the gears she was put to bed, cheers all round and a large glass of wine! BUT, two days later key in, try to start and I get a furious clicking noise and a very slow engine turnover that is insufficient to get her to start
One new hi capacity battery later and no change, I've checked and cleaned the Earth return cables - all ok. New battery fully charged (showing 14.4v) and again the furious clicking noise and a slow turn over????? After this the battery showed 12.6v ???. The main power cable was slightly warm (normal?) But the body of the starter motor was hot???? but not hot enough to stop touch??? The solenoid was cold??? I will add that the starter motor was a recon unit from lucas 15 months ago and has not had a lot of work since.
SO, whats the deal here - starter motor brushes worn out, bad power cable or what?????
Help, Help, Help??

Ian.
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Old 10-02-2018   #2
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Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

It could be that you have a worn out shaft on your armature causing it to hang up on the field coils. Either way you are more than likely going to have to remove the starter. Check how much play you have.
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Old 10-02-2018   #3
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Ian, I am assuming from your description that you have a "electric" type starter (as against a "pull" type)--I have one of each in my workshop, either of which you are welcome to borrow. You will have to give the starter a quick check-over 1st, but it would keep you mobile whilst you recon your own starter.
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Old 10-02-2018   #4
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Quote Originally Posted by the hobbler View Post
Ian, I am assuming from your description that you have a "electric" type starter (as against a "pull" type)--I have one of each in my workshop, either of which you are welcome to borrow. You will have to give the starter a quick check-over 1st, but it would keep you mobile whilst you recon your own starter.
Hi Tom, yes my starter is 'key' operated, thanks for the offer much appreciated. What is causing me grief at the moment is that my starter has done little work over the time I've had it and I cannot believe that the brushes are worn out etc.
If this is the case then what else can cause such a dramatic voltage drop on the battery after some 20 to 30 seconds of cranking? The main power cable looks ok, but maybe I'll need a replacement?? I think that I'll remove the starter and get it tested at the place I bought it, then I'll know for sure if it is the problem or something else??

Ian.
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Old 11-02-2018   #5
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

I had a rebuilt starter and it didnt work from first turn.......the quality of these overhauled units is very questionable.
I bought a starter for my big Healey and it failed.....i stripped it down and there was no commutator left. ....it had been turned on a lathe until it was only microns thick.....
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Old 11-02-2018   #6
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Iíve a couple of spares!! 3 I think 😂
Let me know if you want one of them - really need to sort out all the spares
Chris
(South Manchester)
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Old 12-02-2018   #7
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

A battery showing 14.4 volts on charge or straight after being charged will drop to 13.?? volts after being left a while. (Iirc this extra voltage is called a surface? charge and will disappear). So your battery voltage probably only dropped from 13.?? to 12.6 and would likely recover to 13.?? after being left a while. (Some say 13.2 v. is fully charged, others say 13.5-13.8volts).

The usual recommendation is not to use the starter for more than 10 secs at a time and to allow several minutes between usages so that the starter motor can cool and the battery to recover.

Given that the starter worked fine 2 days earlier and that you've hopefully ruled out a battery or battery lead incl. earth problem, I'd suggest checking out the starter motor solenoid. If this can't allow sufficient current to pass, the starter motor will operate slowly, the solenoid will click furiously and give the impression that the battery is discharged.

AL.
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Old 12-02-2018   #8
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Greetings All, Interesting day today - had the Starter Motor tested " No Fault " the chap said that's good news and bad news, good meaning I don't have to fork out my hard earned, bad meaning it's a wiring problem started with the main cables and the earth return again - all good, but then I remembered what the electrician said " If you don't have 12v at the spade connector on the rear of the motor when the key is turned the solenoid will not function correctly". (clicking noise)
So, that means it's the wiring from the ignition switch thinks I - simple - Not!!!
My car is an 500F with a 126 key system added - the wiring loom is not standard so after tracing the loom where I could and finding no chafing, overheating or problems I sought to take a look at the back of the ignition switch. Now the previous owner must have had a sense of humour because the ignition switch is directly behind the indicator flasher unit with no room to get my size 8 hands in (with the fuel tank in) I eventually resorted to giving every cable I could find in the area a wiggle and then brought out my secret weapon
I use a can of FOSPRO, magic stuff at sorting dodgy wiring connections and after a quick spray of every connection I jumped in offered a quick prayer to the 500 gods and turned the key ---- She starts, she lives, she breathes and she's very noisy (what a relief ) I didn't dare switch her off and left her purring for a good half hour whilst I checked for leaks (the new timing cover oil seal is weeping!!) So the moral of the story is ALWAYS suspect dodgy connections with the 500

Ian.
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Old 12-02-2018   #9
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Great news that your starter is working again.

Now..... Fix it properly.

If necessary, pull the fuel tank out of the way or whatever is necessary in order to check all the connections at the rear of the ignition switch. What you did might only be a temporary fix - one of the wires you wiggled may now fall off - iirc some of these wires are not fused..... Bdtd!!!

P.S. Do you carry a decent-sized fire extinguisher.?
I always recommend that for old cars, you might usefully employ some means of quickly disconnecting the battery in an emergency - quick-disconnect battery terminal/ battery master switch/ tools to remove a battery terminal (will take precious time) even a large sidecutters to snip the lead (not easy to do).

AL.
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Old 13-02-2018   #10
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Hi Ian,

I wouldn't go replacing the timing cover oil seal just yet, just clean the area and monitor it.
Might only be the lubricant you probably used on the seal lip when refitting the cover now being flung outwards. Also sometimes seals 'bed-in' and stop leaking after a while.

If the leak persists, there are oil additives that are supposed to cause oil seals to swell and hopefully stop them from leaking..

Or you could just dribble some Diesel Fuel/Kerosene/Home Heating oil around the seal - this might cause the same seal swelling as above.

Al.
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Old 13-02-2018   #11
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

Quote Originally Posted by F123C View Post
Hi Ian,

I wouldn't go replacing the timing cover oil seal just yet, just clean the area and monitor it.
Might only be the lubricant you probably used on the seal lip when refitting the cover now being flung outwards. Also sometimes seals 'bed-in' and stop leaking after a while.

If the leak persists, there are oil additives that are supposed to cause oil seals to swell and hopefully stop them from leaking..

Or you could just dribble some Diesel Fuel/Kerosene/Home Heating oil around the seal - this might cause the same seal swelling as above.

Al.
Hi Al, thanks for the info - Yes I do have a rather large fire extinguisher in the cabin and a battery disconnect switch. Don't have time to remove the tank yet, need to get on with the running in at last
I think the oil loss is getting less or maybe that's wishful thinking
I'll monitor the spray and the level and hopefully it will stop

Ian.
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Old 14-02-2018   #12
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Re: Urgent Help required - Starter Motor!!!!!!!

I am glad to hear you do not have a worn starter. I did and it caused wires to smoke a bit at the starter connectors.

I also have an extinguisher readily available at hand!
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