Technical crunching gears when changing up

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Technical crunching gears when changing up

....another thing that might be relevant: much earlier in this thread someone posted that you should have 35-40mm free-play at the pedal. Your Fiat 500 appears to be the later type and we have started to discuss diaphragm-springs, so I'm assuming that it is an "F" or "L". If so and certainly if it does have the superior (and I'm not joking here:D) clutch-type, the free-play is significantly less that that, being a miniscule 15-20mm; on my car I err towards the lower figure.

This maybe doesn't change the situation at all but might be relevant with a new cable and also means you aren't failing in the way you were thinking in not achieving the correct free-play at the pedal.
 
In a 126, which has a diaphragm clutch, the recommended free-play at the clutch pedal is 28mm (1.2ins)
 

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Earlier I promised to get some images from underneath my car. The attached are from my 499cc engine which has a clutch which has done 16,000 miles.

I see what you mean about how tricky it is to photograph and my setup is actually out of the car!

The first image is of the linings which are just under 5mm each side.
The second is of the release-bearing completely retracted where it would never actually be if the cable was attached and the third image is when the bearing is just touching the diaphragm-springs.

The range of movement between these two positions is quite small.
 

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Yes, he's a '73 500F. My reading had thrown up the lower free-play figure, which is much closer to where it sits right now.
I have a new friction plate among some random spares that I can measure. I couldn't make out which was the friction plate when looking under the car but I'll have another look and see if it has any meat left.
I was also told, with an unwavering certainty, by a local chap, that my symptoms indicated the pressure plate was the culprit. He didn't elaborate. Still, the clutch gives me an area to focus on and, as the gearbox seems to be operating correctly otherwise, feels right.
And here's a photo of Barry because we all like photos
 

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Earlier I promised to get some images from underneath my car. The attached are from my 499cc engine which has a clutch which has done 16,000 miles.

I see what you mean about how tricky it is to photograph and my setup is actually out of the car!

The first image is of the linings which are just under 5mm each side.
The second is of the release-bearing completely retracted where it would never actually be if the cable was attached and the third image is when the bearing is just touching the diaphragm-springs.

The range of movement between these two positions is quite small.

Ah, that's great, thanks. I get it now. I'll know what I'm looking at now
 
I was also told, with an unwavering certainty, by a local chap, that my symptoms indicated the pressure plate was the culprit. s

Your pressure plate is an earlier one than mine as it has a collar which takes the load from the thrust-bearing rather than having it directly on the diaphragm fingers. Maybe the mechanic suspects a part of that is detached. No need to speculate any further is you are entrusting it to a "pro".(y)

I hope it's all sorted quickly and properly.:)
 
Your pressure plate is an earlier one than mine as it has a collar which takes the load from the thrust-bearing rather than having it directly on the diaphragm fingers. Maybe the mechanic suspects a part of that is detached. No need to speculate any further is you are entrusting it to a "pro".(y)

I hope it's all sorted quickly and properly.:)

I was wondering whether to do it myself. The "local" pro is local as in the same country but not the same city so not really an option. How difficult is the job for a relative novice/idiot such as myself?
 
I was wondering whether to do it myself. The "local" pro is local as in the same country but not the same city so not really an option. How difficult is the job for a relative novice/idiot such as myself?

:D

Given that you obviously have the space and equipment to jack the car up and that you're brave enough to come this far, changing the clutch (as I presume you propose to do) is much easier than the same job would be on any modern car.

Hardened pro's would remove an engine by the roadside if they had to and although you'll find yourself banging your head :bang: (literally and metaphorically), with the guidance of a Haynes manual and using the search facility on the Forum you will be able to do it; don't forget we'll still be here to observe and advise.:)

This all assumes that it is definitely a problem within the clutch itself and that the cable, it's adjustment and route to the gearbox are all eliminated as culprits.
 
:D

Given that you obviously have the space and equipment to jack the car up and that you're brave enough to come this far, changing the clutch (as I presume you propose to do) is much easier than the same job would be on any modern car.

Hardened pro's would remove an engine by the roadside if they had to and although you'll find yourself banging your head :bang: (literally and metaphorically), with the guidance of a Haynes manual and using the search facility on the Forum you will be able to do it; don't forget we'll still be here to observe and advise.:)

This all assumes that it is definitely a problem within the clutch itself and that the cable, it's adjustment and route to the gearbox are all eliminated as culprits.

I think I'll have a crack at it. And i'll do the cable at the same time.
My thinking around the cable is that whilst it may be too long I have effectively taken the extra length away by adding the spacers. It's adjusted so there is minimal free-play so it's length or any stretch shouldn't be relevant? I have traced it along and it's correctly fitted to the side of the gearbox and to the pedal.

You will no doubt be called upon for advice as the Haynes manual doesn't always have all the detail or the "what happens if this breaks" section:D
 
New forum member, and 500 owner lurking but thought I'd post. I bought my first 500 3 days ago and the first issue I have is a (I think) dragging clutch - if I change from neutral to 1st with the clutch pedal fully down the gear is engaged and the car moves forward.

Using all the great advice above I'm going to set about free play / cable adjustment tonight.

I have virtually zero mechanical knowledge but want to learn and can see this forum is going to be very useful, thanks all!
 
I've just come across a list of all the lengths of clutch cables which have been procuced for the range of Fiat 500/126 vehicles and there is a huge range in lengths as follows:

2065 mm
2090 mm
2170 mm
2190 mm

Quite a potential for mix-up and getting the wrong one; especially when mixing/matching engines, gearboxes and different car models.
I also think that the 126 clutch pedal mechanism might work slightly differently from the 500.
 
thanks Peter. Any idea which length is for a standard F? I have just received a new clutch kit and think I'll do the cable as well
 
N/D/F/L is 2090mm and R/126/BIS is 2065mm. So is it possible that the correct cable for a 500 when fitted to a 650 gearbox would be too long?
PS part numbers: 1000005201 and 1000005202.

It would seem so which means the only way to get an over long cable on an F is to use one from a wagon or a stretched one.

I am part way into removing the engine with the Haynes manual as my guide. Following the instructions I'm up to the bit where I'm about to remove the rear panel and then remove the bolts holding it to the transmission. I have got this far with the car on the ground as it was never mentioned about getting it in the air. Can I get the trans bolts out without jacking it up (I haven't tried yet - someone said "pub" and I downed tools). I'm getting back into it this morning
 
It IS possible to undo the bell-housing bolts with the car on the ground, but it is a lot easier if you have the car up on stands (stands under the rear suspension arm---safer than under the jacking points which can get a bit 'soft') and the rear wheels off. Have the jack under the sump (with a piece of ply, or similar, between the sump and the jack) PRIOR to removing the rear cross member. It is sometimes easier to remove and refit the engine if you are able to drop it down a bit as you pull it back to remove it (less of a faff if the exhaust is still in place) and then lift it as you push it forward to refit. Don't forget to remove the shield under the flywheel--it has 3 x 10mm bolts and bolts to both the engine and the gearbox. Also, remember to disconnect the battery prior to doing any removal work. When refitting the engine, you will find it a lot easier to use big (and long) cable-ties to secure the air hosing, rather than the factory metal clips. The clutch cable pulls out from the front (by the pedals). I would suggest that you remove the old clutch cable and measure it before you order the new one.
Well done for having a go at doing it yourself---you learn a lot more about your engine by doing it yourself.
 
It IS possible to undo the bell-housing bolts with the car on the ground, but it is a lot easier if you have the car up on stands (stands under the rear suspension arm---safer than under the jacking points which can get a bit 'soft') and the rear wheels off. Have the jack under the sump (with a piece of ply, or similar, between the sump and the jack) PRIOR to removing the rear cross member. It is sometimes easier to remove and refit the engine if you are able to drop it down a bit as you pull it back to remove it (less of a faff if the exhaust is still in place) and then lift it as you push it forward to refit. Don't forget to remove the shield under the flywheel--it has 3 x 10mm bolts and bolts to both the engine and the gearbox. Also, remember to disconnect the battery prior to doing any removal work. When refitting the engine, you will find it a lot easier to use big (and long) cable-ties to secure the air hosing, rather than the factory metal clips. The clutch cable pulls out from the front (by the pedals). I would suggest that you remove the old clutch cable and measure it before you order the new one.
Well done for having a go at doing it yourself---you learn a lot more about your engine by doing it yourself.

Thanks for that. I have been following the Haynes manual guide which didn't mention lifting the car. It also didn't mention the shield under the flywheel (currently the only thing keeping the engine from coming out:bang:). I made a dolly to go under the engine with a jack underneath it. Of course this clever contraption will make getting those bolts out challenging but hopefully not impossible. It would've been sooo much easier in the air and with that cover removed before starting the rest. You live and learn.
Having a cuppa and then back into it...
 

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Ok, got it out and removed the clutch cover and friction plate, which appears to have plenty of meat left. The replacement cover is different but I assume will work, but is the thrust bearing a straight swap as well?:confused:
 

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