Tuning Your opinion about sport exhausts

F123C · Jan 11, 2018

IanEmery said:
I just watched that video and the soundtrack seems really alien to a 500, hearing it sing to those high revs, it sounds just like we’re all used too but when he hits the throttle! Nice looking exhaust on that car, and it obviously works well.

I posted the link because of how neatly the exhaust installation had been executed.

I suspect the sound is probably better in real life. I've never had much joy with recording exhaust sounds, never sounds realistic, same with many other YouTube videos I've listened to. Maybe you need professional equipment and a 'soundman' to get it right?

Would love to know what mods were done to this engine. Ticks-over really well, unlike many tuned engines, yet revs up to 7k!

AL.

IanEmery · Jan 13, 2018

the hobbler said:
Another good book for exhaust design (as well as a host of information on tuning engines) is the book:---"Four-stroke Performance Tuning" by A. Graham Bell. (Haynes are the publishers) The trouble with the 500 is that the 2 exhausts are at opposite ends of the engine, which presents problems, vis-a-vie an 'inline' engine where all the exhaust ports are next to each other. In the early days of tuning my engine I had a custom stainless-steel exhaust made for it. The 'cunning plan' was (and still is) to eventually use it on my '695' engine. It was used initially for a particular show/run, taken off and put aside, and replaced with the MBG sourced exhaust--which is what is on my engine at the moment and was on in the u-tube film. If you want to see what my stainless exhaust looks like, look on the web-site of "Demand Engineering, Stonham"---the rear of my car is in their 'gallery'. They have taken both pipes to the front of the silencer.
The reason that the 'racing' exhaust is so convoluted is because they are trying to get about a primary-pipe length of about 34ins (depending on cam and revs) into the system--not easy within the confines of a 500 rear-end!
On the 'Abarth 1000tcr' saloon racers (based on the 600 body), the exhaust IS led across the back of the car in order to gain the length required.

I’ve been asked by Tom to post these pics as he has trouble getting pics into his posts.

Sorry Tom but I can’t get the video to post but if anyone is interested I can confirm that his car ticks over very sweetly!

Tom says: Just for interest, both primary pipes on the 'Stainless exhaust' are 30ins from flange to front of silencer, which when the length of the exhaust 'elbow' is added gives a total length of 33ins---a shade short, but not too bad considering the confines of the rear of the 500 engine bay (and the fact that it is for a road car). The bore of the primary pipes is 30mm (1-1/4ins). Shorter than optimum primary pipes will tend to raise the rpm point of maximum power; adding length to the primary pipes will tend to increase low speed and mid-range power.

the hobbler · Jan 13, 2018

Thank you Ian, much appreciated. If anybody wants to see the video of my engine idling, just e-mail me direct ([email protected]) and I will put it through to them.

Bleeding Knuckles · Jan 13, 2018

Greetings, My S/S system comes to pieces and all the parts are held together with springs. It does not require exhaust elbows and bolts direct to the head. The primary pipes are 35mm bore joining at 40mm, entering the silencer (ha!) at 50mm and exiting at 60mm - quiet it aint !

Although it did come with a plug for the tail pipe (mot time). However, the down pipes are not the same length to the join, the fwd pipe is 13" and the rear pipe is 15". The one good thing about it is that I can assemble it on the car without the lack of space getting the engine in!!

Ian.

F123C · Jan 14, 2018

IanEmery said:
I’ve been asked by Tom to post these pics as he has trouble getting pics into his posts. Sorry Tom but I can’t get the video to post but if anyone is interested I can confirm that his car ticks over very sweetly!

Tom says: Just for interest, both primary pipes on the 'Stainless exhaust' are 30ins from flange to front of silencer, which when the length of the exhaust 'elbow' is added gives a total length of 33ins---a shade short, but not too bad considering the confines of the rear of the 500 engine bay (and the fact that it is for a road car). The bore of the primary pipes is 30mm (1-1/4ins). Shorter than optimum primary pipes will tend to raise the rpm point of maximum power; adding length to the primary pipes will tend to increase low speed and mid-range power.

That's an impressive system, especially given the space limitations of the engine bay.

AL.

gordinir8 · Jan 14, 2018

Bleeding Knuckles said:
Greetings, My S/S system comes to pieces and all the parts are held together with springs. It does not require exhaust elbows and bolts direct to the head. The primary pipes are 35mm bore joining at 40mm, entering the silencer (ha!) at 50mm and exiting at 60mm - quiet it aint ! Although it did come with a plug for the tail pipe (mot time). However, the down pipes are not the same length to the join, the fwd pipe is 13" and the rear pipe is 15". The one good thing about it is that I can assemble it on the car without the lack of space getting the engine in!!

Ian.

Yeap, this is the one i will buy when exhaust time comes.

Nowuries · Sep 25, 2018

Hi Bleeding Knuckles: Who makes that S/S exhaust system? I may be in the market and am interested in your design. I live in the US so sound/MOT isn't an issue and I want it to be heard!! Thanks!

Bleeding Knuckles · Sep 26, 2018

Nowuries said:
Hi Bleeding Knuckles: Who makes that S/S exhaust system? I may be in the market and am interested in your design. I live in the US so sound/MOT isn't an issue and I want it to be heard!! Thanks!

Hi, thanks for the question. My system came from Axel Gerstl, they still stock it, item number 03062 It is a CSC Marmitte system. You may find that the down pipes hit the engine bay tray fitted on the right hand inside, and if so, will need to remove a few mm to allow the fitting. The distributor heat protection plate can still be fitted once adjusted (see pic). I have found it easier to fit the engine first and then assemble the exhaust, a bit of a fiddle but it can be done. The exhaust silencer clamps can be adjusted to fit better too, hope this helps.

Ian.

Nowuries · Sep 26, 2018

Hey Ian:
Thanks so much for the pictures! I love the exhaust, and you said it sounds great, but I don't think it will work with my 126 engine setup (you can see the engine on the Mr. Fiat site--it is the 700cc 126 engine). I have a bigger thermostat box, and it has the heat exit tube as well, which looks like it will conflict with your exhaust pipe setup on the back side that is straight out from the exhaust manifold... sadly. I was hoping to use my current exhaust brackets I have (like yours) which yours would allow but now I am leaning towards the Lavazza d.40 racing exhaust I have seen on D'Angelo Motori as it has a pipe that goes over the heater exit tube from the thermostat housing.
http://mrfiat.com/fiat-500-700-cc-50-hp-abarth-sport-engine-complete.html

Lavazza exhaust: http://www.dangelomotori.it/en/scar...zza-d40-for-fiat-500-f-l-r-e-126-vintage.html
What do you think?

gordinir8 · Sep 26, 2018

I believe that since those exhaust systems are designed for fiat 126 they will fit with no problems even with the thermostat box installed. I am not sure about the 126 (650cc) engine fitted to 500 which things are a little bit tight there. especially with the heater duct.
Maybe that someone that has done it can post a picture for as. Exhaust is on my list and i hope to buy one soon also
Thomas

Bleeding Knuckles · Sep 26, 2018

Nowuries said:
Hey Ian:
Thanks so much for the pictures! I love the exhaust, and you said it sounds great, but I don't think it will work with my 126 engine setup (you can see the engine on the Mr. Fiat site--it is the 700cc 126 engine). I have a bigger thermostat box, and it has the heat exit tube as well, which looks like it will conflict with your exhaust pipe setup on the back side that is straight out from the exhaust manifold... sadly. I was hoping to use my current exhaust brackets I have (like yours) which yours would allow but now I am leaning towards the Lavazza d.40 racing exhaust I have seen on D'Angelo Motori as it has a pipe that goes over the heater exit tube from the thermostat housing.
http://mrfiat.com/fiat-500-700-cc-50-hp-abarth-sport-engine-complete.html

Lavazza exhaust: http://www.dangelomotori.it/en/scar...zza-d40-for-fiat-500-f-l-r-e-126-vintage.html
What do you think?

Hi, Before you try to fit your chosen exhaust check that all the pipework will pass the engine bay tray on the right you may have to remove a lot of it and The distributor heat protection plate may not fit and the silencer is held on with springs, not metal clamps - it's a bit of trial and error!!

Ian.

lazylobster · Sep 27, 2018

Nowuries said:
Hey Ian:
Thanks so much for the pictures! I love the exhaust, and you said it sounds great, but I don't think it will work with my 126 engine setup (you can see the engine on the Mr. Fiat site--it is the 700cc 126 engine). I have a bigger thermostat box, and it has the heat exit tube as well, which looks like it will conflict with your exhaust pipe setup on the back side that is straight out from the exhaust manifold... sadly. I was hoping to use my current exhaust brackets I have (like yours) which yours would allow but now I am leaning towards the Lavazza d.40 racing exhaust I have seen on D'Angelo Motori as it has a pipe that goes over the heater exit tube from the thermostat housing.
http://mrfiat.com/fiat-500-700-cc-50-hp-abarth-sport-engine-complete.html

Lavazza exhaust: http://www.dangelomotori.it/en/scar...zza-d40-for-fiat-500-f-l-r-e-126-vintage.html
What do you think?

I'm no engineer (clearly) but the D'Angelo exhaust has more curves than a supermodel. I always thought that the egress of hot gases was more efficient with as straight a pathway as possible.Does look good thou and I would love one of their engines in my 500!
R

Nowuries · Sep 27, 2018

Bleeding Knuckles said:
Hi, Before you try to fit your chosen exhaust check that all the pipework will pass the engine bay tray on the right you may have to remove a lot of it and The distributor heat protection plate may not fit and the silencer is held on with springs, not metal clamps - it's a bit of trial and error!!

Ian.

Hi Ian:
Do you think your exhaust would work even if I have the heater output tube from the thermostat box on my 126-based, 700cc engine? My wife likes to be warm, so I can't do a heater-delete setup, but I can't tell from your pics if it would work. Thoughts?

Regardless, I am tracking on the spring-based clamps--D'Angelo requires it for their fancy twisted exhaust. As for the heat build-up someone mentioned, I read on other posts that if you wrap the pipes it makes a considerable difference in heat buildup in the engine bay, so it if was severe (though not likely in cold Colorado) I can always just wrap the pipes, right?

Bleeding Knuckles · Sep 28, 2018

Nowuries said:
Hi Ian:
Do you think your exhaust would work even if I have the heater output tube from the thermostat box on my 126-based, 700cc engine? My wife likes to be warm, so I can't do a heater-delete setup, but I can't tell from your pics if it would work. Thoughts?

Regardless, I am tracking on the spring-based clamps--D'Angelo requires it for their fancy twisted exhaust. As for the heat build-up someone mentioned, I read on other posts that if you wrap the pipes it makes a considerable difference in heat buildup in the engine bay, so it if was severe (though not likely in cold Colorado) I can always just wrap the pipes, right?

Hello NW,
To be honest I do not think a standard heater feed pipe from the thermostat housing will fit without some adjustment!

and looking at the pics of your engine, it seems that it will be a close fit with any other system, but as I say you may get away with a simple dent in the heater pipe to allow fitment???? Or otherwise remove the heater pipe and rotate it downwards - it would ruin the paint job though!!!

I've attached two pics of my present set up with the downpipes wrapped to the join where the heat deflector plate sits, this is primarily done to lower the engine bay temperature. The other pic shows (badly) my other thermostat housing from a Panda 30 - as I am using a Panda 30 head it will fit easily with my exhaust system. I have chosen to remove the Panda housing and fit my 'mutilated to fit' 500 housing as a test to see how cool the extra tin work keeps the engine. I have noticed that the Lavazza system you mention will take a lot of wrapping and due to the design you may not get any lowering of the heat level in the engine bay even in Colorado

I have just noticed that the 500 thermostat housing pipe is at a different angle to the 650 engine maybe that will fit????

Ian.

gordinir8 · Sep 28, 2018

Bleeding Knuckles said:
I've attached two pics of my present set up with the downpipes wrapped to the join where the heat deflector plate sits, this is primarily done to lower the engine bay temperature.

Ian.

So is that wrapping effective?

the hobbler · Sep 28, 2018

Dax;
I am absolute rubbish at trying to put pictures onto the Forum, could you put one of the pictures that I sent you (or rather, Ann did)---it would show the exhaust that I have fitted and why I have had absolutely no problem at all, and all with a standard 126 thermostat housing fitted.

Nowuries · Sep 28, 2018

No prob' Tom! Thanks for all your guidance on this build, so throwing a few pics online is the least I can do!

Bleeding Knuckles · Sep 28, 2018

gordinir8 said:
So is that wrapping effective?

Hi Thomas, Yes I believe it is. When the engine is at normal operating temperature after driving for an hour or so there is a noticeable difference in the engine bay temperature with the wrapping, especially above the exhaust. I believe that this will help to prevent the carburettor from taking in too much hot air causing rough running through the lowering of the air density and thus the volume drawn in and I shall stop burning myself!!

One other effect I have read of is that wrapping the exhaust prevents the loss of heat from the exhaust gasses, it seems the higher the temperature the greater the velocity of the gas down the pipe and thus the greater the efficiency of the engine.

Ian.

gordinir8 · Nov 28, 2018

Ok i am one click away from ordering one of those two exhausts for my stock 650. Anyone have the black one and can tell me his opinion about Sound and performance? There is a difference in price and i don't mind to save some money right now. I am mostly interesting in sound and maybe a little better performance than original exhaust.

Thomas

lazylobster · Nov 28, 2018

Hi Thomas, for me, the problem with a sports exhaust and forums, youtube is that you never really know the sound until you hear it in person and drive it as well.

Its a problem I too share as although I have a stainless CSC twin pipe on mine, I don’t think its that loud. Also, speaking to those that service 500’s, they mentin that stainless will crack, more so than mild steel. But I’m not 100% if this is true.

Maybe the best idea is to get out and meet many owners as you can and select one that you’ve heard. This is what I’ll try and do next year.

Cheers
Rob

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