Ladies and Gents.

I have a 1969 RHD FIAT 500 F, with a 126 engine which was subject to a full and comprehensive restoration (before I purchased it) in 2015, which included a reconditioned engine.

Since owning the vehicle, I have found that it suffers from cut out when the engine gets hot, from reading the various topics, I believe this to be fairly common and possibly a result of fuel evaporation/starvation.

Searching the forum finds a whole host of potential reasons and ways that may improve the situation. However, I am of an age where all of my previous cars have been 'plug it into the computer at the garage' to diagnose a problem and let the warranty sort out the rest. I have never had the chance to fiddle with car engines. I am in short clueless when it comes to engineering.

As a result I read some of the suggestions and it is like reading a foreign language, I just do not understand it. Also, a suggestion might be made to check the timing for example, which most of you would be able to just go and do, I would want to know why I would need to check the timing, what effect does incorrect timing have, etc. I would then need absolute idiot of idiots guide to check something. Many suggest that the answers to do so and so are in the Haynes manuals, I have got the 500 and 126 version, but again it is like reading something from another language, the pictures help, but not much. Again there is nothing telling me why I need to check or adjust something.

I could simply give the car to a garage and tell them to tune the car up, handover my money and hope for the best. I don't want to do that, I want to learn and be able to do these things myself, I want to be able to tweak a little bit here and there and make my car run as well as possible.

To my main question and the point of this post...

...I don't even know what I have got in that little engine bay. Have I got electric ignition?, non-electronic?, what is a 123 system?, have I got one, is the carb the right size/type for a 126 engine.

I know I have go t a 126 engine, the engine number tells me this, but I don't know what size 126 engine I have. I know I have a 126 gearbox as I do not have to double declutch.

I have attached a number of pictures from the engine bay and ask that you more knowledgeable folk have a look and try and identify what I have got.

Can anyone identify what size engine I have got? Is it a 650cc engine as there is a 650 stamp?
Have I got the right size carburetor?
What else have I got?
Is there anything that doesn't look right or is out of place.

Once I know what I have got, I hope that it will make researching and understanding what I need to check a little bit more easier.

Many, many thanks for anything you can help me with. Please ask if you need me to put my head in the engine bay for more photographs or numbers...

kind regards,

Stuart.

Stuart, I admire your humility about your knowledge. From what I can see you probably have a standard 652cc engine. The elbow of plastic implies a 28IMB carb and the condenser on the distributor a conventional points ignition. The engine looks very tidy.
Once you understand the basic principles, setting the timing is straightforward. There are several good threads on the Forum where it is explained well.

Stuart;
Welcome to the forum; I, like Peter, applaud your honesty re your skill level. The 500 is, by modern standards, a very basic car. As you mentioned, the fact that a 650 synchro box is fitted means that you don't have to double-de-clutch, but remember---only select 1st when the car is stationary! However, basic as the car is, sometimes sorting out the little problems can be very frustrating. Your cutting out problem is 1 such problem---it could be a fuel problem but equally, it could be a condenser problem (the 500 has a bit of a reputation regarding the way it can go through modern, cheaply made condensers).
My suggestion would be to join one of the 2 Fiat 500 clubs, find out which members live close to you (and there are a fair number in your general area) and pick their grey-cells. Most (if not all) 500 members are prepared to help out.
I concur with Peter's analysis of your photos, It would seem that your engine is a standard 652cc '126'engine with 'points' ignition. I would suggest that an evening of going through the various threads on the Forum will answer most of your questions.

Stuart SDHXIII, having seen the images in greater detail on my laptop now, and subject to confirmation by someone wiser, you may have a 600cc engine block.

Going by the head that has the tell tale sign of 650 cast into it, I would suggest its a 650, also as the block has engine number 126A.
Heater box also has the side exit rather than the 500 rear one.
Although it does have the 500/dynamo type fuel pump (square bottom)
Late type blow back system in the air inlet.


Nice tidy unit though. Either came out of a low mileage model or even a fairly new replacement.

Yep, going by all the Polish symbols over the carb, alternator, pump etc I would say a late 126 650 new unit from Poland

Franko500 said:

Yep, going by all the Polish symbols over the carb, alternator, pump etc I would say a late 126 650 new unit from Poland

Click to expand...

That would be my thoughts Sean, and it obviously has a 650 head, but I remember looking into this with my 594 engine and some hazy memories lead me to search out this authoritative-sounding post by someone called "flacki" on a German Forum. It's translated and I have given the link to where I found it. Some interesting detail I think.

"This should be an attempt to clarify the variety of engine numbers a little.
To my knowledge, the whole thing starts with the Fiat 500th There was one, namely the Fiat 500 R, which already had an engine number from the Fiat 126th And that: 126A5,000
This engine has 600ccm and to my knowledge 18hp (resulting from a smaller carburetor)
In the 126 itself started the thing with the engine number 126A 000 (600 cc). This engine number was found until mid-1977 in all 126th
In mid-1977, a new version for Germany and Finland came out. This version had an altered head shape (square), modified baffles on the left side of the engine and a (supposedly) changed for safety reasons thermostat box. The version is now called 126 A048 (600ccm)
These two versions did not change their engine number until the engine started to grow. And on 650ccm. The 650 cc versions were now called 126 A1 000 and 126A1 048.
In Poland, the engine has now been rebuilt in Fiat license, but with different engine numbers.
The engine numbers known to me are:
126A 076 (600 cc)
126A1 076 (650 cc)
126A1 076 / E (650 cc)
126A1 076/8 (650 cc)
126A1 072 (650ccm)
In which periods now which engine number in Poland. I can not say with certainty. In my opinion, 600cc engines have been installed until about 1982 in Poland, in parallel but also already 650ccm engines (probably depending on the solvency of the buyer). These were the engine numbers 126A 076, 126A1 076 and 126A1 072.
At the same time, engines with the engine number 126 A1 000 were built for Italy and other European exporting countries until around 1983/84.
The number 126A1 076 / E I know only since about 1984 and the number 126A1 076/8 only since 1994.

So, now again the numbers with suspected dates:

126A 000 to about 77
126A 048 from about 1975-1977
126A 076 from? -ca. 1982
126A1 000 from approx. 1977- approx. 1983/84
126A1 048 from about! 977- 1987
126A1 076 / E from approx. 1984-1993
126A1 076/8 from about 1994 to the end

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the various bis engines. But maybe one or the other biker can contribute his supplements here.

Otherwise: the list is not exhaustive. Additions or changes are gladly added."


http://126forum.de/Fiat-126/7912-kleines-motoren-nummern-1x1.html

fiat500 said:

Fiat 126th And that: 126A5,000
The engine numbers known to me are:
126A 076 (600 cc)
126A1 076 (650 cc)
126A1 076 / E (650 cc)
126A1 076/8 (650 cc)
126A1 072 (650ccm)

126A 000 to about 77
126A 048 from about 1975-1977
126A 076 from? -ca. 1982
126A1 000 from approx. 1977- approx. 1983/84
126A1 048 from about! 977- 1987
126A1 076 / E from approx. 1984-1993
126A1 076/8 from about 1994 to the end

Click to expand...

oohhh ohhhhh all these numbers.. it's all so confusing these modern Fiatish things...

Things were so simple in 1957,58,59,60
Engine number 110.000 479cc 13/15bhp be done with it
yes there was the more sporty 110.004 with it's 499cc and 21bhp

Do not go by the fact that the engine has a 'square-bottom dynamo type' fuel pump--I have recently been involved with 2 '652' engines--both had the 'dynamo' type fuel-pumps--and they were both a bugger to remove!:bang:

Stuart I feel like I was at the same point 6 months ago. And probably am not much further at this point but I can say that with the many threads on here plus some additional new help from the wonderful folk here, I've been able to troubleshoot most mechanical problems myself.

I still, however do not understand things that crop up commonly such as
Timing, and
Kingpins

However like you I want to do it myself and have a crack

My next engine jobs will be

Replace distributor cap, points and condensor
Clean oil centrifugal filter, replacing gasket + O ring
Change gearbox oil

I'm confident that with the forum, I can do these things, and I am not a car person at all! My tool supply is limited to a drawer in the kitchen that I'm allowed...

Anyway, not sure what my point is other than that I think if you have issues, come here to the forum and browse and you should come along well

My engine case is stamped 126A, yet have a non synchronized transmission.
I am a new owner and need help identifying what I truly have.
my heater tube comes out of the fan shroud facing forward, but the metal heater tube touches the starter and one of the exhaust tubes.

Any insight?