Technical winter maintenance

[gordinir8]

So winter is coming here slowly, today 21 degrees and rising so far
Anyway i start reconditioning the front system of the car, steering, brakes, suspension leafs, wheel wells, silent blocks etc. Ofcourse i have to do king pins myself, love that kind of stuff that need to make special tools and make you brain think. I will post some pictures here especially for the king pin renewal since this seems to be in the dark side.

 

[fiat500]

Winter? 21 degrees is unusual for summer here in Scotland! Did your steering fail a test?. With kingpins, I think most people stumble over obtaining a suitable reamer. It needs to be fairly long so that's it passes through both bushes at the same time. I will be very interested to hear if you can get a new one. As of Sean's advice, make sure you are supplied the correct repair kit so the greasing works for you. I look forward to the postings.

 

[AndrewHarvey]

I have a factory kingpin toolkit including reamer - available to borrow if helpful? Probably a bit expensive to post to far mind....

 

[gordinir8]

Did your steering fail a test?.

No it didn't, just want to make sure it wont for the next 10 years or so.
Steering box is leaking when i raise the car from the rear so a new seal kit has to be installed. Overall condition so far is not bad. i will also remove leaf springs for inspection and cleaning.
I ques that the reamer has to be at exactly the same dimension as the new king pin diameter. I will try and buy one locally, if not i will take it to work, maybe the machine guys there have such a reamer, if not i will take it to a machine shop to ream it. i will build for sure a guide pin to remove and insert new bushings.
Thomas

 

[gordinir8]

Andrew since you have the factory kit can you please tell me if the reamer has any specs on it? Size perhaps? There is a store here in Athens that shells reamers drills and lathe accessories that are made in Russia, pretty good quality and low prices, usually they have what i am looking for. Also thanks for willing to borrow your kit, that is very kind of you.

 

[fiat500]

I guess that the reamer has to be at exactly the same dimension as the new king pin diameter. I will try and buy one locally

I don't know if you have seen the "sticky" at the top of the forum, It's not much guidance but does list the official part numbers.
I have searched in the past and the part number 90316 appears to be compatible with a Dormer item which is 16mm diameter, the cutting length being 230mm. The only thing is that this is a taper reamer so possibly not the correct thing to use.
They are very expensive though...this was the cheapest I found.

https://www.buckandhickman.com/find/product-is-025312-DORMER-B903-HAND-TAPER-PIN-REAMER-16-0MM

 

[berkeleyman]

Am I missing something here? I seem to remember when I did my kingpins four years ago the pins were 15mm diameter?

 

[gordinir8]

I have searched in the past and the part number 90316 appears to be compatible with a Dormer item which is 16mm diameter, the cutting length being 230mm. The only thing is that this is a taper reamer so possibly not the correct thing to use.

There are reamers that cost around 15 euros and can do the work but worst case i will take it to a machine shop and do it for me. Now i have more serious problems, the two M6 studs at each brake support plate found with damaged threads and those look to be welded in the plate. Do you know if i can find spare studs to replace? I don't want to replace both of the plates because of that. If there are no spares available i will remove them and turn down to size two regular M6 screws and replace them.

Another problem i am trying to work is that i can't remove the hydraulic lines from the brake pump since i want to replace it with new. They seem to be stuck and i tried even with a vice grip but nothing so any tips are welcome, i am trying to avoid changing the lines with new:bang:

 

[fiat500]

Am I missing something here? I seem to remember when I did my kingpins four years ago the pins were 15mm diameter?

They probably are I haven't measured them yet nor do I have a reamer...just putting 2 + 2 together and possibly getting the wrong answer.

I've since measured an old kingpin and it is 15mm (or just under) in diameter and 100mm (or just over) in length. The Dormer number similarity must just be a co-incidence. :bang:
So I'll get me coat.

 

[the hobbler]

If I remember correctly from my time at Radbourne Racing (and Croall & Croall in Edinburgh), the 'pucka' factory king-pin reamer was an adjustable reamer--which is why one had to be so careful with it---it didn't take much 'over-adjustment' to end up with loose bushes, and find ones self to be 'back to square 1'! :bang:

 

[Paolo66]

If I remember correctly from my time at Radbourne Racing (and Croall & Croall in Edinburgh), the 'pucka' factory king-pin reamer was an adjustable reamer--which is why one had to be so careful with it---it didn't take much 'over-adjustment' to end up with loose bushes, and find ones self to be 'back to square 1'! :bang:

You are right Tom. I used an adjustable reamer I got from Ebay. You have to be very careful to get it dead straight and only adjust a small amount at a time. Check the fit after every ream and then take a small amount away until you get a nice snug fit. I wrote an article about it for a Fiat 500 club magazine

 

[fiat500]

the two M6 studs at each brake support plate found with damaged threads and those look to be welded in the plate. Do you know if i can find spare studs to replace? .

Another problem i am trying to work is that i can't remove the hydraulic lines from the brake pump since i want to replace it with new.

I don't think the backplates are really expensive, but if it was me, I would completely remove the old friction welded studs, refit the old brake-cylinder as a jig using shiny new M6 threaded screws and then weld the heads of those screws to the back of the plate.

I'm in admiration of your determination but I really would give up on trying to save the brake pipes when the nuts are stuck.:bang:

 

[gordinir8]

I would completely remove the old friction welded studs, refit the old brake-cylinder as a jig using shiny new M6 threaded screws and then weld the heads of those screws to the back of the plate.

I'm in admiration of your determination but I really would give up on trying to save the brake pipes when the nuts are stuck.:bang:

I found those screws at ebay but i will do it your way and put a pair of new standard screws that it is not necessary to weld if i want since you can work them with a socket from the inner side. A small question mark about the strength of the hexagon screws that had smaller head in relation with the big head original weld screws but i hope they will be ok

I was hoping to go the easy way, replacing brake pipes wasn't on my list, it is ok with the two front pipes but i got to change the center that goes through the tunnel also:bang: I can't unscrew the damn thing, i tried my good old trusty blow torch but still nothing so i guess a set of new brake lines has to be ordered also.

I removed the kingpins and silent blocks so far, that was a very very easy job... on the hydraulic press Gotta fabricate a tool for bush removal and installation.

ps regarding the new hydraulic lines do i need a special tool to bend them or i can use something round like a big socket to give them a shape?

Thomas

 

[fiat500]

You can buy a cheap forming tool for bends but I did it freehand even though I used the original rigid pipe. You should be able to get a pipe connector so that you could cut a section of the main tunnel pipe and retain it by making a new, short piece for the end. RHD models had this in any case to extend the pipe to the opposite side of the car. If you can imagine it's a two-way version of that three-way splitter at the back brakes.

 

[gordinir8]

RHD models? don't know them but yes cut and make a new connection might do the work, saves lot of time, i am not sure if there is enough length to just cut close to the pump and put new unions.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

RHD models?

RHD models are special exclusive editions that were delivered to upmarket countries that drove on the Left hand side of the road (the correct side), so the steering wheel is on the Right, thus referred to a Right Hand Drive (RHD)...
they are obviously rarer than the mass produced LHD versions, and driven by a very select band of drivers who are revered by the masses of LHD owners, many of whom lust and covert the idea of RHD ownership...

However whilst RHD Ownership may be an exclusive club, some countries possess far to many of these RHD variants like SA /NZ/OZ and often gloat that they may even be found abandoned or in scrap yards....

 

[fiat500]

.

However whilst RHD Ownership may be an exclusive club, some countries possess far to many of these RHD variants )

I believe that there are two or three RHD 500's still on the road in the UK, but there are plentiful supplies of all the components needed to convert them back to their rightful (leftful?) orientation.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

there are plentiful supplies of all the components needed to convert them back to their rightful (leftful?) orientation.

I was once told by a dealer that Fiat never produced a RHD N or D, and that the only ones in existence must have been converted after they left the factory...
I offered to send him a copy of my N Instruction Manual RHD Supplement, he said "Ohh well I never, you learn something every day"

 

[gordinir8]

Ok those things have been told again here but wanted to share with you. Made a drift that fits inside the bush 14.9mm diameter and outside diameter 16,8mm, king pin diameter is 17mm. Tap it with a hummer not very hard and they came out easy, i will install new sleeves in the hydraulic press in order not to damage them. King pins found corroded but i think that if you service them every year they can last for long.

 

[fiat500]

King pins found corroded but i think that if you service them every year they can last for long.

Grease them every day possibly and they might last ten years?

I am envious of your lathe and ability with it. I used to have access to a big hydraulic press and they are really useful.
The nearest I can get to your bush removal tool is to weld some thin-walled, steel tube to an old kingpin.