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Old 14-11-2017   #16
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

Quote Originally Posted by gordinir8 View Post
By the way check this "adjustable" timing disc.
https://www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheel.aspx
That looks very interesting and I will bookmark to check it out later. Would that be used for setting the position of the camshaft sprocket when fitting a non-standard camshaft?

It made me look at the valve timing specifications in the manual and that reveals a whole other can of worms. There are at least two different factory camshafts available for the 650 with distributor (Haynes). The 594 camshaft is different and maybe the same as the 499? Most suppliers list one type of standard camshaft as suitable for all engines in the range.

The FIAT timing tool was won by one lucky and stupid bidder who can't stop collecting all things Fiat 500.
But when it is delivered to me I can make a life-sized paper-rubbing of it for you as I don't think it would be difficult to make one once you had the pattern.
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Old 14-11-2017   #17
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

I really like to have this original tool in my toolbox, I have search in the past with no success for it. At list it is in good hands so I definitely need an exact copy of It, maybe a scan so I can fabricate one out of aluminium. I will also make a timing disc. All I need is a 650 motor!
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Old 14-11-2017   #18
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

Valve-timing discs can be obtained from a number of camshaft manufacturers at a very reasonable cost---much easier and more accurate (and much more cost effective) than trying to make one. Both 'KENT' and 'PIPER' cams can supply them for about 10 plus carriage.
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Old 14-11-2017   #19
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

[QUOTE=It made me look at the valve timing specifications in the manual and that reveals a whole other can of worms. There are at least two different factory camshafts available for the 650 with distributor (Haynes). The 594 camshaft is different and maybe the same as the 499? [/QUOTE]

I have found those numbers
20/50 50/20 for the 500 ''Haynes has 25/51 64/12'' for the 110F
26/56 66/16 for the 600
18/53 72/24 for the 650
Obviously every engine or even model has a different cam.
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Old 27-11-2017   #20
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

I know that I am labouring this point, but I tried the timing quadrant tool today and it was a revelation,
It is a very snug fit on the nuts of the timing-chain cover. Even though I had "accurately" measured the pulley to get 28 degrees advance by using the usual method, I still had a few more degrees to add by twisting the distributor. I found that, unlike the 110F type distributor which has a better friction fit, the body on the 126 engine is easily forced around by the momentum of the engine even when you think the clamping nut is half-tight for adjustment purposes; I lost my setting a couple of times as the distributor turned back clockwise at high speed.

MAL_8434 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

You need to remember to remove the tool afterwards. Luckily my test drive was only a few hundred metres but I can't see why a diminished version of this timing indicator couldn't have been fitted to the engine design.
So now I am completely sure that I have the maximum recommended advance I can maybe start to experiment by pushing it a little further .
There's no doubt that the engine is as smooth and quiet as I can ever remember it being.
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Old 27-11-2017   #21
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

I thought that you had to remove the two bolts from the chain cover and screw the tool with those Anyway i ques that the 0 mark of the tool aligns with the arrow of the timing chain cover.
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Old 27-11-2017   #22
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

Like gordini8, I had assumed that the tool would be fitted by replacing the two bolts to fit it onto the engine casing. Seeing it fitted like this shows the importance of getting those tubes turned to exact dimensions when replicating the timing tool so it is held firmly onto the bolt heads.
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Old 27-11-2017   #23
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Re: Maximum ignition advance for 650 engines

Quote Originally Posted by IanEmery View Post
Like gordini8, I had assumed that the tool would be fitted by replacing the two bolts to fit it onto the engine casing. Seeing it fitted like this shows the importance of getting those tubes turned to exact dimensions when replicating the timing tool so it is held firmly onto the bolt heads.
Yes, privately someone has already discussed with me the dimensions I measured for the tubes. If making another I would experiment first before committing to a design. A short length of tube will cost very little and you might even find the right thing simply lying about.
It is and exceptionally tight fit and I suppose my next task is to find something standard myself which has the same tolerance and then report back.
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