Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2015   #1
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 266
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
650cc Engine Upgrade

Hi everyone,

I've been the owner of my 1971 500 Lusso for about a year now. It was restored pretty well before I owned it so, to be fair, my work has been limited to fixing up some missing trim and a few tweaks here and there on the engine (some oil pressure issues, brake lights, oil leaks, the odd gasket here and there).

The engine has had some work. The head has been gas flowed and ported, high lift camshaft has been fitted, better carb, better exhaust. This has added a few horses and it now runs at about 33-35bhp.

A year in I'm seriously considering upgrading the car to include a 650cc engine and gear box, as well as fitting disc brakes.

Don't get me wrong, generally speaking I do love and enjoy the car as it is. But where I live is quite hilly and, I'm not gonna lie, I do find it hard to drive the car in modern traffic, which is a shame.

I haven't got the space and the appropriate tools to swap the engine, and I'd be looking to outsource the work of finding and fitting the new engine. Disc brakes I could handle, but while I'm at it I'd outsource that as well.

So, here's my question. Can anyone recommend where I could get this work done? I've used Middle Barton Garage for some engine repair work, and was pleased with what they did. But I'm all ears in regards to recommendations!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pete145 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-05-2015   #2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 126
Thanks: 4
Trader Rating: 0
Germany 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

http://www.ilmotore.de/

Just visited there and they do great work.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Giardiniera1969 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-05-2015   #3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 849
Thanks: 68
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

If you are getting that sort of power from a 499ccs engine then fitting a standard 126 652ccs engine would not help you. However if you were to go with a 652 then swap your tuning parts it could be a different story. What carb do you have on there and has the inlet port been opened up on the head ?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Toshi 975 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #4
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 64
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

I'd agree with Toshi. You will only get about 23hp with standard 650
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Paolo66 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #5
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 129
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
FIAT126 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

I`m assuming a 33-35 is only a guestimate and if it`s a 500cc engine it`s probably a bit optimistic It would be nearly a 100% power increase.


As Toshi said if you used your upgraded parts on 650 engine, this would make a nice difference. Also you would be better off keeping the standard gearbox if you want to go up hills faster as the 126 has a "longer" final drive.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

FIAT126 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #6
Shed Troglodyte
 
Bambino's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,486
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
Bambino has donated!
Australia 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

Quote Originally Posted by Pete145 View Post
The engine has had some work. The head has been gas flowed and ported, high lift camshaft has been fitted, better carb, better exhaust. This has added a few horses and it now runs at about 33-35bhp.
Hi Pete,

My 695 with similar mods gets around the same horsepower (~50bhp/litre).

I could get more but it would take some serious raising of the compression ratio, tuned exhaust, very lumpy cam etc. and would most likely result in an engine that was unusable on the road.

Mine has been mildly breathed on, starts and idles well, isn't peaky and is a hoot to drive, particularly in my hilly suburb.

My humble advice is to do the upgrade but don't overdo it unless you want to go racing.

You'll find plenty of friendly, helpful advice on this part of the forum.

Chris
__________________
1967 Fiat 500F (Enzino)
Sundry other Italian rotboxes

Amante di vecchie automobili italiane
Bambino is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #7
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 266
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

Quote Originally Posted by Toshi 975 View Post
What carb do you have on there and has the inlet port been opened up on the head ?
I'm pretty sure it's the 126 carb, and the head was skimmed, gas flowed and ported. It's the car from Classic Car Rescue, which aired on Channel 5 about a year ago. Jondel Racing did the work on the head.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pete145 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #8
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 266
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

Quote Originally Posted by FIAT126 View Post
I`m assuming a 33-35 is only a guestimate and if it`s a 500cc engine it`s probably a bit optimistic
Oops, sorry, my mistake! I've added 10 bhp! According to Jondel it's achieving 23-25bhp now.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pete145 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-05-2015   #9
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 849
Thanks: 68
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

Quote Originally Posted by Pete145 View Post
I'm pretty sure it's the 126 carb, and the head was skimmed, gas flowed and ported. It's the car from Classic Car Rescue, which aired on Channel 5 about a year ago. Jondel Racing did the work on the head.
If it is a 126 carb then it will have 28 IMB on the casting as opposed to the 26 IMB on the 500. The inlet port diameter on the 500 head is 26 mms and 30 mms on the 126 so I assume the tuning guys took that into account. Did they increase the inlet valve size? Also if they put together a higher revving engine did they upgrade the standard cooling fan?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Toshi 975 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 14-05-2015   #10
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 266
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

Quote Originally Posted by Toshi 975 View Post
Did they increase the inlet valve size? Also if they put together a higher revving engine did they upgrade the standard cooling fan?
They did increase the inlet valve size, but they didn't upgrade the cooling fan.

So, what I'm hearing is that a 650cc engine upgrade won't give me any more bhp than I'm already achieving from my modified engine. Is that correct?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pete145 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 14-05-2015   #11
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,431
Thanks: 60
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: 650cc Engine Upgrade

You can make 35 - 40 reliably- but you'll spend
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AndrewHarvey is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 650cc Engine with electronic ignition Vitesse 500 (Classic) 111 21-04-2016 21:29
(T) fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc Phiat500 500 (Classic) 33 05-02-2014 16:13
(G) 650cc engine and synchro transmission tinaric 500 (Classic) 4 21-03-2013 20:00
(T) 1962 Model D engine swap to 650cc Andy Pantz 500 (Classic) 8 14-12-2012 16:43
(T) 650cc engine shrouding sofiat 500 (Classic) 2 28-11-2011 15:39