Good morning

I am just rolling onto a ferry about to start a week's adventure in France, Belgium and Netherlands.. On the drive down there was an increasingly noticeable/ loud squeaking coming from the front right suspension and I assume it's the kingpin that needs greasing (despite it being <150 miles new). I picked up grease and a gun yesterday but without a Haynes manual I am lost as to where to grease. I can see snippets of the manual when I search google...

(www.kesteleyn.net/500/Haynes_UK.htm
All versions of the FIAT 500: 479, 499 and 594cc ..... Pump in grease till it exudes clean at the ends of the king pin.)

...but unfortunately the site is down. Is someone able to guide me through as I've little clue when it comes to this part of the car.

Thanks as ever

Steve

Hi Steve
I just asked this a few weeks ago !
Looking at the back of the steering knuckle the nipple is the only thing that sticks out about 1/2cm.
I was unsure as the whole thing was black but just latched grease gun on and pumped away, it is easier to get the grease in if the tyres are lifted !
Having said that I pumped away for quite a while without it appearing at the ends !
This was after I had spent a few hours cleaning off under seal so decided to try another day.
The thing I did notice is that it was easier to twist the grease nozzle to remove from the nipple.

An 8 minute response before 7am? New record!

I see your post and the responses now - thank you very much!

If your car front suspension has been uprated with 126 parts, there will probably be 2 grease nipples--the 500 uprights had only 1 nipple in (if I remember correctly) the stub-axle unit, whereas the later 126 had their 2 nipples in the upper and lower parts of the king-pin housing. It does take a fair bit of pressure to get the grease through, and as 'DK500' says, it is easier if you raise the front of the car so that there is no load on the front suspension

Coming back to greasing the King pins !
I have managed to pump it into the right hand side. However under no circumstances will it wrong on the left side, I have swooped grease nipples in case of blockage, but no joy !
I enemy used a small vice to squeeze the handle. All I have managed to do is break the grease gun.
Any theories in where to go with this ?
Darryl

Take the grease nipple off and insert just this into the gun and squeeze if you get grease out the nipple is okay. Then try and poke something into the hole where the nipple was. Chances are you wont be able to as the old grease will be rock hard. If you can't clean it out in situ then I'm afraid you'll have to take your kingpin off and refurbish

Hi paolo
Thanks for the tip.i will give that a go.
The kingpins were replaced about 18 months ago !
Darryl

It's normally the nipple blocked when this happens, so hopefully an easy fix.

Well, checked nipple works fine off but still no joy ! There doesn't appear to be hardened grease in the King pins. Broke the grease gun trying !

It's not much help to you but if it they were replaced recently, there is a chance that one of the cr*ppy reproduction sets was used. The original style have a drilling centrally the full length. This connects to a drilling which aligns with the grease nipple. Grease goes in and up the centre to the top and bottom of the pin where it is forced into the spiral grooves top and bottom, which is where it does its job.
The modern ones which I bought have no centre drillings simply rely upon the spiral coinciding with the grease nipple and accepting grease. The problem with this is that the spiral might not connect, if it does, the spirals are very shallow and in any case, the grease can easily take the path of least resistance as soon as it has to pass the gap for the stub axle.
In all, I don't think these pins have an effective greaser, even if it seems to work. I think it's all to easy for the alignment of the spiral flute to be all wrong.
You obviously don't want to dismantle them so you may have to live with it but you could try this:
1. Jack the side up and support the wheel off the ground very safely somewhere that takes the weight off the steering.
2. Have a look to check that the roll pin, which keeps the swivel pin in place hasn't broken. That's hard to do because it might still be there but have a break you can't see. Get someone to swivel the steering whilst you look for movement. If it has let the pin move in the stub axle the grease hole may be misaligned.
3. Very carefully and with an extinguisher to hand, try to get the top and bottom parts of the pin as hot as you dare without melting the plastic cover around the thrust washers or damaging the rubber silentbloc bushes.
4. Whilst still hot, try to get the new grease in.

Good luck with that.

Hi peter,
Thanks for the plan !
I will jack it up at the centre of the wishbone. Just to confirm,
By roll pin do you mean locking pin ?
By swivel pin do you mean the King pin with the groove in it ?
Expecting a new grease gun tomorrow so will give it a go.
Thank you
Darryl

My 500 had sat for 17 years undercover before I rebuilt it a few years ago and I was expecting getting grease into the king pins was going to be a bit of a pain.

At first my old grease gun just wouldn't work, but I bought another off of eBay and after a lot of hard pumping it forced all the dried grease out and I just carried on pumping until it forced loads out the bottom and top, it took a surprisingly lot of grease in each one.

I remember changing them last time at least 20 years ago and the chances are that as spares were less readily then than they are now, that they were possibly better quality? This was pre internet days when all you could get from suppliers was a parts catalogue in the post.

The plot thickens !

Having tried again with new grease gun !

The left hand side - no joy - broke the nipple ! :-(

The right hand side- even better !

However , I have now discovered the right side has a nipple on the front and back !

I presume this is not normal !
Probably a 500 joint one side and a 126 joint in the other.

What a mess !
Obviously been taken for a clown by the mechanic that was supposed to have replaced King pins !

Interesting that you have found 1 of your king-pin carriers has 2 grease nipples, and it may not be the mechanics fault. Check the size of the hub bearings---if they are the same size side-to-side, there is a fair chance that the assemblies are not from different models. The original 500 had quite small bearings compared to the 126. The 500 also had only 1 grease nipple, and despite the original king-pins being hollow (ostensibly to help distribute the grease) it was the norm when stripping the king-pin/hub assembly to find only 1/2 the king-pin had any grease around it. A colleague of mine, who has overhauled a lot of king-pin assemblies, always fits a 2nd nipple whilst the assembly is still in 'component form'. The latest 126 had 2 grease nipples fitted. Sadly the original king-pin/hub carrier design was a case of execution not matching design prospects!
Overhauling the king-pins on the 500 is not an easy job, and to do it properly a long, adjustable reamer is essential, in order that the top and bottom bushes are reamed out in perfect alignment---sadly, a tool that is not easy to find these days.
If (or when) you have to strip your hub assemblies, it might be worthwhile fitting a second grease nipple to the assembly that only has 1 at the moment.

Hi Tom,
Sorry, I should not have blamed the mechanic, bit quick off the mark.
I actually ordered reconditioned steering knuckles with King pins replaced at the time.
However I did not examine them prior to fitting and I am really surprised that he would not have noticed it.
He seemed to be very on point.
Being a complete novice, I am finding these type of hiccups frustrating !
Darryl

Darryl, just done my kingpin greasing and thankfully no problems, but have found that the nipples are at the forward side of the knuckle on the right of the car and at the back of the knuckle on the left !!!!! Try this little fix if you can - as you are pumping with the grease gun spin the steering left and right and see if that lines up any galleries or grooves for the grease flow you may find that you get to a position that allows grease into the kingpin - good luck!

Ian.

Will give it a go and report back !

Twisting the steering whilst trying to find a way for the grease is a good idea. But the kingpin is locked to the swivel part of the setup, which is also where the grease nipple is located on an unmodified assembly. Hence the grease hole remains exactly in the same place relative to the kingpin regardless of movement.
If the kingpin actually did start to move in the stub axle, that would mean the locking pin was broken and you would probably need a new assembly.

On the 126 king-pin assembly the 2 grease nipples are located on the top and bottom sections of the 'support' (as Fiat call it), so swivelling the steering whilst trying to pump grease in may indeed help. I agree, on an unmodified 500, the grease nipple is on the actual hub-carrier (and in hindsight, not the wisest place to put it!), so swivelling the steering would achieve nowt. For this reason alone, I would always recommend fitting late 126 front hub carrier/king-pin assemblies when renewing them if possible. There is also the added bonus that the later 126 hubs have substantially larger stub-axle bearings in them.