Hi
building my 695 from a 126 650cc
Which thermostat housing do I need?
500?
126?
Will this do?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermosta...496483261?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item418a7f75bd

regards

Andrew

Hi Andrew there are differences between the 500 housing and 126 housing. I am not sure what but can have a look tomorrow as I have a 500 engine fitted in my car currently and a 650 that I have just rebuilt, well nearly, so I have both housings to compare.

Is your new engine going to be fitted with a starter motor from a 126 with a solenoid or an older starter motor keeping the original lever to start it? If the former you need to buy a new heater tube that has basically a preformed dent in it to allow for the solenoid.

Tony

Tony is right - they are different. The one on the left is from a 500F whereas the other one is for a 126.

The eBay listing is for the correct housing for a 126 650cc engine.

Chris

They are different. No confusing once you know!

Yep it is rather obvious when you see them side by side, I can honestly say I didn't notice it on my 650cc engine. I think that is because the exhaust goes up and over the heater outlet tube. I guess they changed it because the heater outlet on the 500 one does get very close to the exhaust.

Chris you used your 500 tinwork on your Niki engine didn't you?

Yes - the Niki 650 and Fiat 126 650cc engines are externally identical. Quality is a bit different though ...

The change in direction of the cabin air outlet was dictated by the change in position of the starter motor. You should also try to source to the intermediate piece too as it is also different. The 126 one (below in the photo) has one of the mount points in a slightly different position and is indented to clear the starter though I would think that a 500 one could be easily adapted.

Chris

Yeah I have purchased that additional heater tube already from reading your previous posts. I have this odd oval shaped Polish exhaust on my 650cc. With it having no distributor and an ignition control box and dry coil off a later Cinquecento its a bit of an odd beast. I had to rebuild the engine in the end as it had some major oil leaks and was covered in grime, all over engine and gearbox. I have replaced the driveshafts for new 500 ones, I just need to put them back in the gearbox now. Hopefully it should be back in one piece in a couple of weeks. I don't know if there is a lot of interest on the forum about the engine rebuild so haven't posted about it. I can if anyone wants to see what's been happening and what's involved?

In Poland it's known as a Maluch meaning the small one or small child. It also has an odd extra vent on top of the tinwork where the air filter sits that allows you to open it to direct a blast of cool air in the direction of the carb. I guess it was added to keep the carb cooler on really hot days.

Were Niki's built in Oz?

Vitesse said:

Chris you used your 500 tinwork on your Niki engine didn't you?

Click to expand...

Sorry - I just reread your question. I used the Niki tinware. The 500 tinware wouldn't fit.

As far as I know, Nikis were imported from Poland completely assembled. They were never a great hit here as build quality was poor and traditionally Australians buy big cars, even for city driving ...

Even nowadays with the cost of fuel, cars like the excellent later model Smarts struggle to sell. Having said that, all new cars are much more fuel efficient and cleaner than they used to be, even the V8s. So I guess the only advantage to fleets of small cars is in decreasing inner city traffic congestion.

Chris

PS: I'm sure your rebuild would be of interest. There is always something to learn.

Hi Chris when you say build quality was poor, do you mean the Niki in general or the engines? I have read on other post on both here and other forums about the quality of Polish built compared to Italian built engines. TBH I cant see anything on the engine that suggest it is built to a lower quality. It looks like it has come from the same tooling that must have been Part of the deal with Fiat in Italy.

The fact that Magnetti Morrelli were happy to sell on the ignition system off of the Cinquecento to the Polish built 126, just seems to be a move forward in the advancing technologies. My engine has 97 stamped all over the engine and gearbox, which suggest it is probably amongst one of the last production air cooled engines produced. It just wasn't very well maintained by its previous owners. There are bits like the oil slinger that I think have never been touched, the gasket was flat as a pancake and inside the slinger was encrusted with oily gunge.

Fortunately when they fall into the hands of 500 owners they get the TLC they need, nothing is damaged beyond repair at a reasonable cost.

I will update my 650 thread tomorrow to help others going forward.
Tony

Hi Tony,

When I was considering my engine options I initially stripped the Niki motor to use various parts. The crankcase looked very roughly finished and the gasket surfaces were not planar - maybe that is why it leaked oil. I was going to get it machined until I noticed many stripped threads. These can happen to any crankcase but there were three of them amongst the sump bolts alone and I doubt whether the sump had been off since the engine was assembled. I asked a local motor cycle engineer to have a look at it with a view to boring the crankcase to take larger cylinders. He commented that the alloy looked 'tired' and of poor quality. With loosening head studs another problem, I didn't argue and ended up buying a new 126A crankcase. It was deemed to be of better quality and the gasket surfaces were largely flat.

The guy who helped me rebuild the transmission made disparaging comments about the original bearings and said that the Italian replacements were much better.

The rest of the car didn't look too bad, though it was full of rust. Things did seem to fit OK and the electrics worked well.

I probably should qualify this by saying that in general the car had not been maintained and it wouldn't surprise me if the engine oil was still original - just topped up from time to time. The colour and smell were not great and the thickness of gunk on the centrifugal slinger was impressive (photo attached - after degreasing!). The brake fluid was more rusty water than hydraulic fluid (photo) and the head was cracked near one of the exhaust valves, likely due to overheating. One of the combustion surfaces on the head was branded with the outline of a screw that probably fell into the cylinder during a plug change.

All this is just my experience and I don't want to bag Polish engineering. They are smart, proud people but you can't help but feel that the Nikis were very much built down to a price (and then some ...). Out of interest, I've owned a few German cars over the years that were real dogs as well.

Nowadays the little Fiats & Nikis are generally spoilt and fettled as befitting their place in automotive history. But back in the day, they were cheap and disposable.

Chris