Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 25-01-2013   #16
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by Bambino View Post
Found these two photos of the different bellhousings. The bolt pattern on the box case proper looks the same.

Is the ring gear on the flywheel the same between the two models, that is, are the starters interchangeable?

Chris
Thanks for the photos. I will post some photos tonight..... i just received the engine and parts yesterday.
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #17
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by Toshi 975 View Post
500F to 500R / 126 starter motors are not interchangeable because of the flange mountings but you can get and swop the ally castings. The 126/500R has a different little cover plate where it mounts to the bell housing plus there should be a rear support bracket on the stater motor that connects to the gearbox . Sounds like you will have the right bits to do the job and if you use the original box you will have to split the diff housing to swop the bell housing so you in a great position to fit the 500L/R drive shafts . Starter ring gear is not a problem I am running a bored out 500D crankcase , 500 flywheel , starter motor , 500 bell housing and a 126 synchro box and I know of others who have done the opposite by matching up a crash 500 box to a 126. You can mix & match
thanks, this explains alot and assures me of the questions i had.
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #18
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by dunnah01 View Post
I found that the 500 bellhousing won't fit the 650p engine. There is no cut-out in the 650 engine block to accept the 500's top mounted starter motor so the starter can't be installed since it fouls on the block. I'm pretty sure the bellhousings are interchangeable although one has studs whereas the other has bolts but it's simply a matter of extracting the studs and using the bolts - or vice versa?
thanks, As long as it's doable!
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #19
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by usafstud View Post
My limited knowledge is not helpful, but welcome to the forum phiat500.
Thanks , glad to be here!
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #20
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by dunnah01 View Post
This is where the starter motor clashes - so you can't use a 500 bellhousing on a 650 engine (or a 650 bellhousing on a 500 engine). The gearbox will fit either bellhousing.
My '71 500L has the thicker driveshafts so I think the 500F might be the same.

Thanks this helps alot. I with post some pictures later on tonight.
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #21
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

A scene inside my garage!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	1.32 MB
ID:	111822  
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #22
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Smile Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

From Poland to Montreal Canada. fiat 500 to a fiat 650.
Here is a picture of my engine!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	1.22 MB
ID:	111827  
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #23
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Fiat 126 starter! Right?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	1.20 MB
ID:	111828  
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #24
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Does anyone know if I should change these pieces?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	1.88 MB
ID:	111829  
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #25
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Bell housing! So my question is .... With all these pieces I will be able to swop the engine right? With no further modifications?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	1.06 MB
ID:	111830  
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-01-2013   #26
Shed Troglodyte
 
Bambino's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,486
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
Bambino has donated!
Australia 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Few comments -

Thread response #21 - The car seems to be on its side .... I thought us southern hemisphere types were the only ones with issues like that, only our stuff is completely upsidedown

#22 - The engine looks nice and seems to be fitted with an alternator rather than a generator (dynamo). All good though you'll have to do a little bit of rewiring.

#23 - The starter is a cable operated one. The starter on my donor 650 was solenoid actuated. Fiat 126s may have been fitted with cable operated starters, I'm not sure so I'll defer to others on the list who know for sure. I guess if it fits the bellhousing, it's the correct one.

#24 - Carburettor gaskets and clutch throwout bearing. If your engine has been rebuilt, these parts should now be OK and not need changing. As the man says - they are 'ekstra'.

#25 - 126 bellhousing. Yep it's the correct part and yes your can now install your new motor. You will have to change the 126 rear mount studs for the longer ones from your old 500 engine. I think the only other minor issue you may have is with the warm air to the cabin. The outlet on the 126 engines faces a different direction to the one on the 500 (not a big problem) but the starter motor may now foul the metal centre piece between the two pieces of air hose. A bit of minor panelbeating should sort the problem.

Keep the pictures coming,
Chris
__________________
1967 Fiat 500F (Enzino)
Sundry other Italian rotboxes

Amante di vecchie automobili italiane

Last edited by Bambino; 25-01-2013 at 06:58.
Bambino is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 26-01-2013   #27
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by Bambino View Post
Few comments -

Thread response #21 - The car seems to be on its side .... I thought us southern hemisphere types were the only ones with issues like that, only our stuff is completely upsidedown

#22 - The engine looks nice and seems to be fitted with an alternator rather than a generator (dynamo). All good though you'll have to do a little bit of rewiring.

#23 - The starter is a cable operated one. The starter on my donor 650 was solenoid actuated. Fiat 126s may have been fitted with cable operated starters, I'm not sure so I'll defer to others on the list who know for sure. I guess if it fits the bellhousing, it's the correct one.

#24 - Carburettor gaskets and clutch throwout bearing. If your engine has been rebuilt, these parts should now be OK and not need changing. As the man says - they are 'ekstra'.

#25 - 126 bellhousing. Yep it's the correct part and yes your can now install your new motor. You will have to change the 126 rear mount studs for the longer ones from your old 500 engine. I think the only other minor issue you may have is with the warm air to the cabin. The outlet on the 126 engines faces a different direction to the one on the 500 (not a big problem) but the starter motor may now foul the metal centre piece between the two pieces of air hose. A bit of minor panelbeating should sort the problem.

Keep the pictures coming,
Chris
I don't know why everyone is saying this "car is on its side!!" My iPhone browser sees it upright. I think something happened in the translation. Must be funny.

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the alternator??

The cable starter is what exists in the orignal fiat 500 f if I'm not mistaken. Right? This will work in the swop??

I can't believe you saw the Ektra writing!!

Thanks a ton BAMBINO you have been extremely helpful.
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 26-01-2013   #28
Shed Troglodyte
 
Bambino's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,486
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
Bambino has donated!
Australia 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Have a look here for a short discussion on alternators/dynamos etc.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classi...onversion.html

Attached is the rewiring diagram.

According to my 126 manual, the early cars were fitted with a cable starter, so if your starter fits the bellhousing (the mounting points are different between the 500 & 126) then it is a 126 starter. All you may need is a 126 cable as I'm not sure if the 500 ones are the correct length.

Chris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Diagram.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	111870  
__________________
1967 Fiat 500F (Enzino)
Sundry other Italian rotboxes

Amante di vecchie automobili italiane

Last edited by Bambino; 26-01-2013 at 06:21.
Bambino is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-01-2013   #29
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Canada 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Quote Originally Posted by Bambino View Post
Have a look here for a short discussion on alternators/dynamos etc.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classi...onversion.html

Attached is the rewiring diagram.

According to my 126 manual, the early cars were fitted with a cable starter, so if your starter fits the bellhousing (the mounting points are different between the 500 & 126) then it is a 126 starter. All you may need is a 126 cable as I'm not sure if the 500 ones are the correct length.

Chris
This diagram is the best one so far. Can't find anything else. Thanks!
__________________
Phiat500 - Filippo (9933341@gmail.com)
Phiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-01-2013   #30
Shed Troglodyte
 
Bambino's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,486
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
Bambino has donated!
Australia 
Re: fiat 500f 69' - engine swap 126/650cc

Glad it's useful but I can't take credit for it.
I found it here - http://www.fiat500.cc/store/ViewArti...?idProduct=304 - about two years ago when I was thinking about converting my dynamo to an alternator.
All I did was save the image where I could find it easily.
Please keep us posted as you complete your car,
Chris
__________________
1967 Fiat 500F (Enzino)
Sundry other Italian rotboxes

Amante di vecchie automobili italiane
Bambino is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) fiat 126 engine swap Vspec95 126 16 19-06-2015 09:47
(T) 1962 Model D engine swap to 650cc Andy Pantz 500 (Classic) 8 14-12-2012 17:43
(T) 650cc swap on a '69 500L Miramontesj 500 (Classic) 8 25-01-2012 17:23
(T) 650cc engine shrouding sofiat 500 (Classic) 2 28-11-2011 16:39