Technical Fiat 127 Super series 2
- Thread starter bazzde
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Fiat 127 Super series 2
I don't know if a fuel tank from a Uno would fit.
Have you checked where the tank is leaking? Iirc there is a rubber type connecting piece between the filler neck and the tank which can perish/fail -this is easily replaced. (it's under a small metal cover held in place by a couple of screws). I think Fiat call this part a 'Filler Neck Hose'.
If the corrosion is not too bad, it might be possible to have it repaired. This requires that special safety precautions are taken. If you can't find a company that repairs fuel tanks, I'd suggest contacting a company that repairs car radiators - often they also can do fuel tank repairs. A good Motor Factors might be able to suggest someone locally.
Over the years, I've replaced many of the above filler neck hoses but have never had to replace a fuel tank. I'd recommend you check out this hose first.
AL.
Have you checked where the tank is leaking? Iirc there is a rubber type connecting piece between the filler neck and the tank which can perish/fail -this is easily replaced. (it's under a small metal cover held in place by a couple of screws). I think Fiat call this part a 'Filler Neck Hose'.
If the corrosion is not too bad, it might be possible to have it repaired. This requires that special safety precautions are taken. If you can't find a company that repairs fuel tanks, I'd suggest contacting a company that repairs car radiators - often they also can do fuel tank repairs. A good Motor Factors might be able to suggest someone locally.
Over the years, I've replaced many of the above filler neck hoses but have never had to replace a fuel tank. I'd recommend you check out this hose first.
AL.
Agreed. I’ve never replaced a tank either, over the last 30 years. Filler pipes yes - they are on EBay and readily available.
Definitely the tank, I can see the hole where it is leaking from. The car has been sat for many years and to cut a long story short my son purchased it for my as a gift, I owned a 1050 sport 28yrs ago and always wanted another 127. It needs a fair bit of body work done but need to sort out the tank before I start any of that. The engine turns but doesn't fire and it's only done 26000mls. Ordered new rotor arm, distributor cap, leads, timing belt and v belt & new plugs but i think the tank will have to come out, drain any fuel and let it vent for a few days before I can start any repairs.
Firstly, get all the fumes out! I dropped the tank last night and when it's free from fumes and dry I'll treat the inside first then I suppose the only option is to patch it by welding. I haven't to gear to braze it and I want a long term fix. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated though.
Might be easier to just replace it then if it’s definitely the fuel tank. Germany is always a good place to look & they are generally easier to deal with than Italy....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-127...676034?hash=item1ecdbc1bc2:g:dqUAAOSwa3ZZmDPv
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Fuel tanks of that era were often made from 'Terne Plate' - which is steel coated with a lead+tin alloy. (later terne plate was steel coated with a zinc/tin alloy, nowadays, terne plate is a type of stainless steel with a tin coating).
If repairs are to be carried out by welding or brazing, then this coating needs to be removed in the vicinity of the repair - and appropriate safety precautions employed to deal with any fumes.
So, the usual method of repair is to use solder for small holes and soldered-on patches for holes. (this is why I mentioned finding a radiator repair w/shop).
Always clean the tank before any cutting, sanding, grinding, welding, brazing or soldering is carried out.
Ideally the tank should be steamed out thoroughly after draining. The biggest danger is the risk of an explosion caused by igniting any build-up of petrol fumes. Even after the tank is drained and dried out fully, it appears that fumes can still build up again. Some say that petrol soaks into the pores of the terne plate and re-emerges later, but idk....Petrol can also linger in any sediment or rust inside the tank.
Some suggest positioning the tank so that the area to be heated and repaired is uppermost and to fill the remainder of the tank with water, to minimise the area/volume in which fumes could accumulate. But this isn't always possible and is awkward due to the weight of water/shape involved.
I'd settle for thoroughly rinsing out the tank with a detergent/very hot water mix. Remove the sender unit and drain plug - anywhere that petrol may linger.
Soldering can be done either with a very large electric soldering iron, an old style heavy soldering iron (heated by a flame) or a blowtorch.
You can use either 'Baker's Soldering Fluid' as a flux or a tinning paste. you can get these and suitable sticks of solder (not roles of solder wire) from a plumber's merchants or DIY/hardware store. For affixing patches, clean the edges of the hole and tin with solder, clean the patch to be applied and tin the edges with solder, then fix the patch in place by a process called afaik 'sweating' - heat the patch and tank until the solder on both melts and feed more solder into the joint to ensure a complete bond without gaps.
I saw this very technique being used recently on tv. Iirc, it was in an episode of Wheeler Dealer's with Mike Brewer and Edd China which is on 'Quest'? Channel, in which they had a rusted-out petrol tank from a Jensen Interceptor? repaired by a specialist. You might be able to locate this program or a suitable youtube video to see the technique in action.
After you've repaired the tank, it might be a good idea to seal the tank inside with one of the products sold for this purpose, to hopefully avoid future problems.
I've worked in both a car workshop and a truck workshop where people became complacent around petrol fumes and paid a heavy price. (Exhaust silencer being welded, exploded/ petrol tanker blast, tank had been steamed out for several hours, tested ok to weld, but job then left for a day, fumes had built up again!).
Please be very careful at all times and wear eye protection/face shield
AL.
If repairs are to be carried out by welding or brazing, then this coating needs to be removed in the vicinity of the repair - and appropriate safety precautions employed to deal with any fumes.
So, the usual method of repair is to use solder for small holes and soldered-on patches for holes. (this is why I mentioned finding a radiator repair w/shop).
Always clean the tank before any cutting, sanding, grinding, welding, brazing or soldering is carried out.
Ideally the tank should be steamed out thoroughly after draining. The biggest danger is the risk of an explosion caused by igniting any build-up of petrol fumes. Even after the tank is drained and dried out fully, it appears that fumes can still build up again. Some say that petrol soaks into the pores of the terne plate and re-emerges later, but idk....Petrol can also linger in any sediment or rust inside the tank.
Some suggest positioning the tank so that the area to be heated and repaired is uppermost and to fill the remainder of the tank with water, to minimise the area/volume in which fumes could accumulate. But this isn't always possible and is awkward due to the weight of water/shape involved.
I'd settle for thoroughly rinsing out the tank with a detergent/very hot water mix. Remove the sender unit and drain plug - anywhere that petrol may linger.
Soldering can be done either with a very large electric soldering iron, an old style heavy soldering iron (heated by a flame) or a blowtorch.
You can use either 'Baker's Soldering Fluid' as a flux or a tinning paste. you can get these and suitable sticks of solder (not roles of solder wire) from a plumber's merchants or DIY/hardware store. For affixing patches, clean the edges of the hole and tin with solder, clean the patch to be applied and tin the edges with solder, then fix the patch in place by a process called afaik 'sweating' - heat the patch and tank until the solder on both melts and feed more solder into the joint to ensure a complete bond without gaps.
I saw this very technique being used recently on tv. Iirc, it was in an episode of Wheeler Dealer's with Mike Brewer and Edd China which is on 'Quest'? Channel, in which they had a rusted-out petrol tank from a Jensen Interceptor? repaired by a specialist. You might be able to locate this program or a suitable youtube video to see the technique in action.
After you've repaired the tank, it might be a good idea to seal the tank inside with one of the products sold for this purpose, to hopefully avoid future problems.
I've worked in both a car workshop and a truck workshop where people became complacent around petrol fumes and paid a heavy price. (Exhaust silencer being welded, exploded/ petrol tanker blast, tank had been steamed out for several hours, tested ok to weld, but job then left for a day, fumes had built up again!).
Please be very careful at all times and wear eye protection/face shield
AL.
Last edited:
Might be easier to just replace it then if it’s definitely the fuel tank. Germany is always a good place to look & they are generally easier to deal with than Italy....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-127...676034?hash=item1ecdbc1bc2:g:dqUAAOSwa3ZZmDPv
Palio, while I agree with your view that it might be easier to replace a fuel tank rather than try to repair it, the above tank is for a 127 Fiorino (like a 127 van)
so I don't think it will fit a 127 Hatchback
(but OP could probably locate one to suit his car if he wished).AL.
Last edited:
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Really appreciate the views and advice, but I think I might have to go down the new fuel tank road. Removed the fuel level sensor and there is a thick tar like substance covering the whole inside of the tank. I can only assume it is stale fuel and working out the costs of cleaners and coatings it would be more cost effective to get a new tank.
Palio, while I agree with your view that it might be easier to replace a fuel tank rather than try to repair it, the above tank is for a 127 Fiorino (like a 127 van)
so I don't think it will fit a 127 Hatchback
AL.
It specifically shows 1050CL in one of the pictures, but I'm not about to go crawling under mine to see if it's the same!
I suspect it is - why would a 1050 tank be different on the Fiorino (it's effectively the same apart from the rear section) - of course we are talking about Fiat..... The seller has 4 for sale, variously listed.
Hi there, I have 2 127 petrol tanks here, both in good shape as far as I can tell? if you want to give me a call on 07885 037 361.
Regards Trevor.
Regards Trevor.
Fuel tank is now back in, bodywork treated where tank sits and no leaks! Question, is there any way of testing the fuel pump when it's off the car. I've taken it apart, gave it a good clean and the diaphragm appears to be ok. Just not getting fuel to the carb when turning over.
Car now runs sweet. Turns out the metal flap on the pump was stuck, also got a repair kit for the carb that has now been fitted. Now on to the brakes! I have one seized caliper on the o/s and I mean it's seized solid. Is there an upgrade to the brakes that is readily available?
Check out www.tarox.co.uk for uprated brake discs.
I think they also do uprated calipers but idk if they have any for the 127.
also www.ebc.com for discs, pads, calipers, brake lines etc. (idk about the 127)
also www.biggred.co.uk for caliper reconditioning.
Unfortunately, you're restricted by wheel size (13 inch), so I don't think you can fit larger diameter discs, just more efficient ones plus suitable pads. Braided lines should improve pedal feel.
Hth,
AL.
I think they also do uprated calipers but idk if they have any for the 127.
also www.ebc.com for discs, pads, calipers, brake lines etc. (idk about the 127)
also www.biggred.co.uk for caliper reconditioning.
Unfortunately, you're restricted by wheel size (13 inch), so I don't think you can fit larger diameter discs, just more efficient ones plus suitable pads. Braided lines should improve pedal feel.
Hth,
AL.
Last edited:
When you get everything back together and go to bleed the brakes, remember you need to support the car under the rear wheels otherwise the rear brake pressure limiting valve will be closed preventing fluid movement. Alternatively disconnect the pressure valve linkage and devise a way to twist it to keep the valve open to allow bleeding of the rear brakes.
(Just in case you weren't aware of this valve and it's effect on bleeding the brakes ).
AL.
(Just in case you weren't aware of this valve and it's effect on bleeding the brakes
).AL.
When you say the caliper piston is well and truly seized, what do you mean?
and what attempts have you made to free it off? Have you tried heating the caliper body?
The caliper piston usually becomes corroded outboard of the seal under the dust boot. This mean that the piston can't be pushed back e.g. to fit new brake pads. The best chance of freeing the piston is to use hydraulic pressure (i.e. when still connected to the car's brake system) to push the piston out. There is a special pliers available to twist the piston and try to get it to move. (it has jaws with teeth on the outside and as you squeeze the handles the jaws expand to grip the inside diameter of the caliper piston i.e. it operates in the opposite way to a normal pliers.
If using the cars brake pressure, please be careful, mind your fingers and eyes, it's a good idea to place a block of wood or similar between the caliper piston and the body - a stuck piston suddenly freeing off can cause serious injury - if, alternatively, using an airline, the piston can be ejected with considerable force.
AL.
and what attempts have you made to free it off? Have you tried heating the caliper body?
The caliper piston usually becomes corroded outboard of the seal under the dust boot. This mean that the piston can't be pushed back e.g. to fit new brake pads. The best chance of freeing the piston is to use hydraulic pressure (i.e. when still connected to the car's brake system) to push the piston out. There is a special pliers available to twist the piston and try to get it to move. (it has jaws with teeth on the outside and as you squeeze the handles the jaws expand to grip the inside diameter of the caliper piston i.e. it operates in the opposite way to a normal pliers.
If using the cars brake pressure, please be careful, mind your fingers and eyes, it's a good idea to place a block of wood or similar between the caliper piston and the body - a stuck piston suddenly freeing off can cause serious injury - if, alternatively, using an airline, the piston can be ejected with considerable force.
AL.
Last edited:
Thanks for the heads up on bleeding the brakes, forgot all about that! My brother has had the calipers at his garage and used pretty much every method mentioned. He managed to free one of them but the n/s isn't budging. Found a new one on eBay for twenty quid new which was a result. Just need new discs now.
Attachments
^^ Excellent find.
Even if you had managed to free off the ns caliper, chances are that piston would have been too badly corroded to re-use.
Might be worth checking that the piston diameter on the new caliper matches the other one on the car, just in case. (but afaik they're all the same size from that era).
I've heard that Tarox discs and pads give more bite but I've no personal experience. Some of the 'improved' discs and pads can be rather pricey compared to standard aftermarket ones but idk if they are worth the extra for normal road use. But I'm sure you'll do your homework before spending your hard earned....
AL.
Even if you had managed to free off the ns caliper, chances are that piston would have been too badly corroded to re-use.
Might be worth checking that the piston diameter on the new caliper matches the other one on the car, just in case. (but afaik they're all the same size from that era).
I've heard that Tarox discs and pads give more bite but I've no personal experience. Some of the 'improved' discs and pads can be rather pricey compared to standard aftermarket ones but idk if they are worth the extra for normal road use. But I'm sure you'll do your homework before spending your hard earned....
AL.
