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Old 07-07-2020   #1
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Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Iím new to the forum, so apologies if this has been covered before. Iím currently assembling parts to build a turbo aircooled engine. Panda 30 head and exhaust manifold/heat exchanger - which comes to one outlet avoiding the need to fabricate a manifold. Porsche 924 throttle body, with 32mm and 40mm chokes which operates like a progressive down draught Weber, a spacer between either the throttle body or the Panda manifold and head to carry a fuel injector, Iíll also be able to delete the distributor and go to wasted spark ignition. At present Iíve just got the top end as that letís me build up the modified section to check dimensions, any fabrication and fitting sensors etc.

Iím looking at various turbos just now, Iím hoping that if anyone has fitted a turbo previously they could point me in the right direction for an oil feed to the turbo?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-07-2020   #2
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Sorry I canít help you with your technical question but I did meet a guy from the fiat126club forum who has developed and built a 700cc 126 with turbo inter cooler that was clocked at over 100hp On a rolling road. There should be information if you search on there. He developed the engine over many years and last time I heard he was having problems with bending crankshafts so was making his own new one from a solid billet with a centre bearing.




Quote Originally Posted by CC Zero 1998 View Post
Iím new to the forum, so apologies if this has been covered before. Iím currently assembling parts to build a turbo aircooled engine. Panda 30 head and exhaust manifold/heat exchanger - which comes to one outlet avoiding the need to fabricate a manifold. Porsche 924 throttle body, with 32mm and 40mm chokes which operates like a progressive down draught Weber, a spacer between either the throttle body or the Panda manifold and head to carry a fuel injector, Iíll also be able to delete the distributor and go to wasted spark ignition. At present Iíve just got the top end as that letís me build up the modified section to check dimensions, any fabrication and fitting sensors etc.

Iím looking at various turbos just now, Iím hoping that if anyone has fitted a turbo previously they could point me in the right direction for an oil feed to the turbo?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-07-2020   #3
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Thanks, I’ll have a look. 100+ BHP is something else, must be hitting 8000rpm to get there, I’d be happy with a reliable 50-60 BHP. I’m hoping that going down the EFI route will ultimately make the fueling part a bit simpler.

Thanks again ��
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Old 07-07-2020   #4
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

That is all wierd science I am strictly a carb man. Is that power going into a cc zero? That would make it a lethal weapon.
That guy has also got water injection which he had not used.


[B
[/B]
Quote Originally Posted by CC Zero 1998 View Post
Thanks, Iíll have a look. 100+ BHP is something else, must be hitting 8000rpm to get there, Iíd be happy with a reliable 50-60 BHP. Iím hoping that going down the EFI route will ultimately make the fueling part a bit simpler.

Thanks again ��
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Old 07-07-2020   #5
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

My ultimate plan is for the CC Zero, I think 50-60BHP would be suffice for my talents, 100BHP would just prove that adrenaline is brown . Iíve a few things to sort out to get the CC Zero on the road, as far as I know itís been laid up since last century.
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Old 08-07-2020   #6
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Quote Originally Posted by CC Zero 1998 View Post
as far as I know itís been laid up since last century.
Bit like me then
Thinking on your original question when guys fit an external oil filter they tap the oil from the timing chain cover which houses the oil pump. Did your car come with an engine or are you building from bits?
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Old 08-07-2020   #7
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

The car is complete, now you mention it I’ve seen adapters that attach to the outside of the timing cover. I’m also thinking a t-piece at the oil pressure switch, most of the engines I’ve seen are on YouTube and the oil supply pipe isn’t visible. Turbos seem to have a small(ish) diameter delivery pipe and larger diameter return pipe. I’m waiting for my confirmation email for the other forum, then I’ll get in and have a look.
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Old 08-07-2020   #8
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

I was interested when I saw CC Zero on the forum as I have always liked them after I saw one many years ago parked up on the Main Street in Dartmoor while on holiday down there. I have a pal who has had a number of them along with other 500& 126 kit car variants. He sold two to a guy in France who seems intent on cornering the market on them. I have just sold a Blitz buggy although it is still on my drive at the moment.
I did not have my thinking cap on yesterday because I realised I had a brand new modified timing chain cover and oil outlet adaptor in my spare parts.
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Old 08-07-2020   #9
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Quote Originally Posted by CC Zero 1998 View Post
The car is complete, now you mention it Iíve seen adapters that attach to the outside of the timing cover. Iím also thinking a t-piece at the oil pressure switch, most of the engines Iíve seen are on YouTube and the oil supply pipe isnít visible. Turbos seem to have a small(ish) diameter delivery pipe and larger diameter return pipe. Iím waiting for my confirmation email for the other forum, then Iíll get in and have a look.
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Old 08-07-2020   #10
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Is the adapter a straight forward fit, I think I read that itís attached by drilling through existing mountings? Iím not sure how many Rodrigue the chap in France has, he was interested in mine, I read the other day about one getting shipped to Germany, there a a few in Poland, I think, as well. I believe that there were 25 or so built, most by Car Craft, they sold the plans on and another 3 were built.

Iíve managed to get my one properly registered, as it was showing as a Fiat 126 on the log book, when I checked registrations from pictures on line most had never been re-registered and very few were shown as SORN or having an MoT history which would imply they were short lived after conversion. I started a folder with various prints etc., Iíll need to check the reg numbers again. There also has to be a presumption that any RHD cars on the continent were originally UK registered and that possibly a handful if not more either havenít survived or are mia.

Do you have any other fiats now that youíve sold your Blitz?
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Old 09-07-2020   #11
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

The adaptor fixes into the same M6 holes that locate the oil pump on the inside of the timing chain cover. They are drilled and tapped all the way through. There is a hole drilled through to the centre of the oil pump, the outside of the cover is machined with flats to position the adaptor.
Not sure if my pal has any more information on the CC Zero, I will have to check with him.
I still have my 1972 500L with custom 650 engine built on a 500 crankcase and synchro gearbox. Also my 1981 126 DeVille currently fitted with a 795cc Alquati engine and I have two other engines for that one. Then I have have loads of new, used and recon parts in my house, shed and garage which is why I sometimes forget what I actually have here



Quote Originally Posted by CC Zero 1998 View Post
Is the adapter a straight forward fit, I think I read that itís attached by drilling through existing mountings? Iím not sure how many Rodrigue the chap in France has, he was interested in mine, I read the other day about one getting shipped to Germany, there a a few in Poland, I think, as well. I believe that there were 25 or so built, most by Car Craft, they sold the plans on and another 3 were built.

Iíve managed to get my one properly registered, as it was showing as a Fiat 126 on the log book, when I checked registrations from pictures on line most had never been re-registered and very few were shown as SORN or having an MoT history which would imply they were short lived after conversion. I started a folder with various prints etc., Iíll need to check the reg numbers again. There also has to be a presumption that any RHD cars on the continent were originally UK registered and that possibly a handful if not more either havenít survived or are mia.

Do you have any other fiats now that youíve sold your Blitz?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Apologies, I did respond but I don’t know where it went??

I’ve managed to find 16 registration numbers for CC Zero, 14 RHD and 2 LHD, 2 RHD are now exported so could be duplicates of UK numbers, and another is on its way to Switzerland. I’ve not checked DVLA mot / tax databases. Because the cars were put together in the 90s they don’t seem to have been “properly” registered do I doubt DVLA could run a search.

I had a couple of 126s back in the 80’s, when they were cheap (and I’m now ashamed to say disposable) motoring. Before heading down my current path I had been thinking about motor bike engines, BMW flat twin, Honda CX or flat 4 and Moto Guzzi V-Twin. Apparently the Moto Guzzi engine was originally designed to be used in a performance version of the Fiat 500 but was deemed too powerful. I’m not sure but I have an inkling that the Fiat flywheel might bolt onto the Moto Guzzi crank which uses 6 M8 bolts on a 39mm pcd, I’ve not been able to confirm the Fiat pcd.

What sort of power do you get with your Alquati engine?

I’m constantly rejigging my garage storage to try and keep parts in one place, it’s always a problem when you obtain something for future use and put it somewhere safe.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

Yes the good old days of the 126, I remember them well. If the one you were running went wrong you bought a replacement for £50
I had helped out a local lad with spares for his beloved 126 in which he had toured Europe With his pals. The starter packed up and he parked it under a tree on his front lawn for about 3 years. He called me one day to ask if I wanted the car as I could have it for free. I said yes but how could I get it. Living about 2 miles away he said he would deliver it. With his mates he hooked it up to his Mumís Volvo Estate and dragged it here one Sunday afternoon. The brakes and wheels were seized but some freed off but I still remember the thick black line up my road where one tyre still would not budge. Why are you giving it away I asked? As a Motherís Day present for my Mum he said. Apparently a 126 covered in green mould on the front lawn of a property located in one of the richest postcodes in the UK did not go down too well with Mummy. Especially when Daddy was a prominent Harley Street Surgeon 😳
Will talk engines later.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #14
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

[QUOTE=CC Zero 1998;4546127
What sort of power do you get with your Alquati engine?
.[/QUOTE]

Well at the moment I have only managed to drive the car about a quarter of a mile but I guess I have run the engine on the bench and in the car for 2-3 hours and I must admit it surprised me in that it seems to be quite a smooth runner. I expected it to be a bit of a thumper with the increased capacity, lightened flywheel, Alquati cam and stage 1 head. Until I got it back together last year the engine had been in bits since 1985 after running for about 3,000 miles I was told. The engine was commissioned by a prominent RAF test pilot In 1984 with work done by Italtune & Lanciana in London , possibly done by an ex member of the Italian Alquati racing team. The test pilot raced cars and motorbikes as a amateur on the European circuit so had a passion for fast toys. I made a forensic examination of all the parts and think I found a simple fault that had led to oil starvation and damage to the pistons hence itís short life in the hands of a speed merchant. When I bought the engine I got to sit down and have a coffee with the guy and he reckoned that he had to put a bag of cement in the front to maintain good contact with the tarmac and he was talking 50+ HP but not sure about that.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #15
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Re: Air cooled 126 turbo oil feed

50 BHP will be pretty nippy.

A few years back, I was involved in some tests on Heavy Diesel lorry engines, they were conducted by one of the major oil suppliers. The trucks were still using mechanical injection pumps, some test gear was attached and by measuring the acceleration from idle to instantaneous full throttle they could calculate the engines power output. While not as accurate as a dynamometer we were able to sample a proportion of our fleet and evidence a marked difference in power output over the sample of ďidenticalĒ vehicles. As a result some trucks were taken to a company in Bradford who optimised the injection pumps, and managed to get 10-12% over quoted power, this improved fuel consumption quite markedly and all pumps across the fleet were optimised.

I always thought that the acceleration test was a far more mechanically sympathetic than a dynamometer for spot checking power output. I suppose that itís nice to know what return has been gained for a given investment but at the end of the day if it feels good when your driving it thatís all that matters.
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