Technical eliminating emissions system?

[mlieb]

Can I eliminate all of the emission system including the smog/air pump? We don`t have restrictions in Iowa on this so I`d like to block everything off and eliminate everything that I can.Any advice or thoughts?
I have the engine out of the car and I`m kind of going through things as best as I can. ( new head gasket,water pump belt bearing...) so now would be a good time. Also What`s the deal with the thermostat they use? Any upgrades?
Thanks for any help!

 

[rallycinq]

Which induction system do you currently have?

D

 

[mlieb]

Induction system? Well I don`t rightly know. It`s just a 1976 1800 with a carburetor. Everything is stock at this point.

 

[rallycinq]

Induction system? Well I don`t rightly know. It`s just a 1976 1800 with a carburetor. Everything is stock at this point.

The carburettor is your induction system. Euro spec carb and you'll wonder where all the power came from.

D

 

[mlieb]

Okay so then back to my question. Can I just get rid of all that emission stuff cluttering up everything?Including the Smog/air pump?

 

[Eklipze3k]

I think what rallycinq is saying (and I'm no expert in carburetted systems) is that yes, you can, and if you can get hold of a Euro spec carb you'll also have a much more powerful vehicle.

 

[mlieb]

Oh Okay sorry for not catching that. I`m in the U.S. I guess at times our terminology differs.

 

[rallycinq]

Sorry, I probably need to be less brief in my replies.

And, yes I am old enough to have had my fair share of dealing with carburettors.

The smog kit on the US models has pipes going to things like exhaust gas recirculating systems. These can all be removed and bungs fitted where appropriate.

They are similar sizes to sump plugs so should be easily obtainable.

That should leave just the carburettor breathing pure fresh air and a marked increase in performance.

A Euro spec carb will be set up better for an engine with the smog equipment removed.

Of course this all depends on the engine being in good condition to start with.

Cheers

D

 

[F123C]

The thermostat is a double valve type, it allows coolant to be circulated around the engine only by the waterpump until the engine warms up when it then allows coolant to flow through the radiator. It does essentially the same job as a normal thermostat, just slightly better - iirc, it helps to prevent hot spots in the cyl. head around the exhaust valves. It can be tested in the normal manner by heating it suspended in a pan of water and checking the internal valve moves at the appropriate temperature.


It is possible to convert back to a normal 'fitted in the head type' thermostat by changing the cylinder head outlet fitting and the radiator hoses but it's a lot dearer than the correct double valve thermostat. All these parts, outlet fittings, hoses, thermostats and much more are available from e.g.

www.midwest-bayless.com

(to name just one classic Fiat parts supplier).

AL.

 

[F123C]

I've worked on a few imported 124 Spiders ( they were never sold here new).

As 'rallycinq' says, remove all gear, blank all openings and ideally fit a Euro spec. carb. This is what we do over here.

But there's no harm in trying your existing carb and see how it runs. You might have to change a few jets depending on how it runs -maybe copy the Euro carb jetting if the choke sizes are the same. (Midwest-Bayless stock carb parts incl. jets).

There are new carbs available (copies of the original Weber twin choke) but some have been very disappointed with the quality.

Some U.S. spec Fiat twin cam engines, run a lower compression ratio than the Euro versions and possibly? different cams, also more retarded ignition timing. All of these issues will affect performance. Not much you can do about these differences without rebuilding the engine.


I'd suggest trying advancing the ignition timing to 10 degress BTDC (the Euro figure),see how it runs, retard if necessary to eliminate pinging etc.

Also ensure the accelerator pump in the carb is working correctly - as you open the throttle it should squirt a nice even spray of fuel down into the venturi. There are different sizes of acc. pump jets available.
Getting this acc. pump working correctly can make a big difference in how the engine responds. Lots of examples of 124's on YouTube not running correctly......(but their owners think otherwise )

AL.

 

[mlieb]

Thanks so much for all the advice.Right now I`m in the process of trying to find plugs for the holes in the intake left by removing that emissions rail thingy.(sorry) Went to the parts store and the guy said that the only way that I could make it work was to cut off all the lines and weld them shut, Said that the line nuts were tapered and that the only way that they would seal is by means of the line.
I`m not sure that I buy that. I should be able to just plug them off shouldn't I ?
Again Thanks so much for all the help and Please feel free to throw out any other info. or tips that might help a newbie to all this out.

 

[F123C]

If the line nuts are tapered thread then you need taper plugs.

Taper plugs are usually either BSP (British Standard Pipe Thread), BSP.Tr (British Standard Taper Pipe Thread) or NPT (American National Pipe Thread).

Given that these are on a Fiat engine, I'd reckon the taper plugs needed are probably BSP.Tr - I don't think there are any metric tapered threads - but I could be wrong... To help you determine what type of plugs you require :-

BSP threads Size 1/8 inch 28 threads per inch, has a nominial thread size of 0.383"

BSP threads Size 1/4 inch 19 threads per inch, has a nominal thread size of 0.518"

BSP threads Size 3/8 inch 19 threads per inch, has a nominal thread size of 0.656"


NPT threads Size 1/16 inch has a nominal thread size of 0.313"

" " " 1/8 inch " " " " " " 0.405"

" " " 1/4 inch " " " " " " 0.540"

" " " 3/8 inch " " " " " " 0.675"

Nominal thread size means afaik the average diameter of the thread.

Sources of tapered blanking plugs - any plumbing supplies outlet, any outlet that caters for compressed air/gases etc. Truck workshops often carry stocks of blanking plugs. Also try Auto Factors.

You could check out www.mcmaster.com/standard-cap-plugs

also www.mcmaster.com/tube-fittings


What the parts store guy said was probably correct and the usual way of doing things.

Another alternative would be to seal the cut off lines with solder, epoxy, JB Weld or similar, if you don't have welding facilities.

Sometimes, it's possible to cut off the lines leaving a little length of metal pipe remaining, then flatten the open pipe end and either solder it or fold it over on itself.

None of these lines are under great pressure, all you're really after is to prevent any air leaks into the induction system so even plastic blanking caps pushed over the open line ends, or indeed, into the threaded holes would likely work just fine (except in locations subject to significant heat).

AL.

 

[mlieb]

Okay New problem. I`m trying to find a new oil pump and it seems ab bit confusing. When I find the correct year ,engine size etc. the description will say " for engines after 572365". The Number on the side of my block is 4343832.
Or am I looking in the wrong place. Man this is confusing!

 

[F123C]

4343832 sounds like a casting (part) number not an engine number.


On a 1976, 1800, the engine number should be stamped on a small machined area of the cylinder block, just above the aluminum oil filter housing. (left side when viewed from the driver's seat). It should start with something like 124CC or 132AB then 'dash' then maybe 6 or 7 numbers.

Your engine number might also be recorded on the vehicle registration documents? (idk, I'm not American).

Later engines had the engine number on a machined area close to the engine mounting bracket on the left side of the cyl. block.

The only difference I'm aware of with oil pumps is that the early pumps had a short section of splines on the driveshaft (c. 8mm) This length of splines was increased to c. 13mm. Your car being a 1976 model should have the later pump. The problem with the earlier pumps was that they had a tendency to shear off the splines inside the oil pump drive gear ( the one that is driven from the auxiliary driveshaft in the cyl. block). I'd suggest carefully checking the splines inside this drive gear and renew if in any doubt.

AL.

 

[mlieb]

Thanks much! I will take a closer look at things,...

 

[mlieb]

Here's what I`ve found..

 

[mlieb]

this is another # n the block?

 

[F123C]

Here's what I`ve found..

Yes, 0469165 that's your engine number.

The first part (132A1) is the engine type/cubic capacity. When the CC Coupe/CS Spider were introduced, they used a new variant of the Fiat twin cam engine in 1592 or 1756cc - to achieve these capacities, the bore spacing was changed from the earlier engines 1438/1608cc.(designated by engine prefixes 124AC/125BC, used in the AC/AS & BC/BS models).

The reason they used the prefix 132 was this was supposed to be the new big volume seller to replace the 124 Sedan, the 124 Coupe/Spider were smaller volume.

The intermediate numbers in your engine number (.040.5), iirc, refer to engine compression ration/power output and possibly emission equipment fitted.

So in the case of your oil pump question, I reckon you should compare 0469165 (your engine number) with the changeover engine number.


One word of caution, it's not unusual for engines to have been swapped out over the years, so always go by the number of the engine fitted, not was originally fitted or should be fitted, when ordering parts. All the engines from 1438 - 1995cc can be fitted in any of the cars, although I wouldn't recommend trying to fit the 1995cc unit into an early AS Spider, well not if you want to be able to close the hood.

AL.

 

[F123C]

this is another # n the block?

4343832 is the Fiat part number for the engine cylinder block ( bare block/casting, no internal parts).


132AC1C is the engine type and cubic capacity.


AL.

 

[mlieb]

Thanks so much for all the information. This helps me out so much!.
One more question and I will lay-off for awhile.
How do I check and/or replace this...
"The problem with the earlier pumps was that they had a tendency to shear off the splines inside the oil pump drive gear ( the one that is driven from the auxiliary driveshaft in the cyl. block). I'd suggest carefully checking the splines inside this drive gear and renew if in any doubt."
Thanks again!