Technical Tricks for Bleeders - Request

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Technical Tricks for Bleeders - Request

Drumrboy

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Oct 10, 2011
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Hi, long time 2000 owner but first time poster here.

I have air in the brakelines...must've let the reservoir fall below the min mark and need to bleed 'em. At least I think that's my problem....pedal goes all the way to the floor before pads meet rotor....pumping them doesn't seem to fix it either so maybe its something more sinister than air in the system.

Three of the four bleeder nipples are frozen. I've put liquid wrench on there and one application (sitting for 24 hours) doesn't do it. Will try more applications but am seeking advise from anyone who's come up with any tricks for loosening frozen ones.

Thanks in advance.

PS - Also, if the symptoms that I think are air in the system are really something else, shout.....I did the brakes 10 years ago and everything seemed fine then ;-)
 
I'm betting it's not going to be air in the system. It sounds like the master cylinder.
If you did let the level drop to the point where it's drawn air into the master cylinder then it's easy to cure. The air won't have travelled far through the system, it will still be at the top. push/wind back the pistons all the way into the calipers. This will force fluid back to the resevoir and the air out with it.

Your bleed nipples are going to be a problem. The 8mm nipples are quite fragile and seize into the alloy caliper by electrolytic corrosion. I remove mine from all of my cars at least once a year and lather them with copper grease.
If you snap them off then recovering the caliper becomes a whole lot more difficult!

The only way you'll get them out is by heating the caliper enought for the expansion to break the bond between the two metals. To do this you really need to strip them down completely, removing the seals so they aren't damaged by the heat. Then you need a powerfull blowtorch or O/A welding torch.

If you'd rather not risk snapping them then the alternative is to bleed the system at the pipe. It's not as effective as the nipple but with effort it will work.
Assuming your M/C is knackered you can do the following:

1) Try to pump the pistons out as far as you can with the old M/C.
2) Replace the M/C with the new one.
3) leave the pipes loose on the new M/C and fill the resevoir.
4) Wait for fluid to begin to leak from each pipe. Nip each one up when it begins to leak.
5) Top up the resevoir and loosen all pipes again.
6) Have your beautifull assistant press the pedal to the floor and hold it.
7) Nip up the pipes and release the pedal.
8) Repeat until there are no more bubbles coming out.
8 1/2) WASH THE FLUID OFF :D

Try the pedal and see how it feels. If it is still soft then:

9) Starting at the furthest wheel from the M/C bleed in the traditional (to the floor/lock up/release) manner but instead of cracking the bleed nipples, crack the pipe where it meets the flexi. Two or three pumps should expell everything in the pipe.
10) Repeat for each wheel or until pedal is solid.

If this doesn't do the trick then the final chance is to push all the pistons back in again to expell the air through the M/C

Good luck and try not to break the nipples! If you do, let us know and I'll tell you how to recover the calipers!!
 
Thanks much for the thoughts. Methinks you're right about the M/C.....my experience with air in the system is that one can recover a stiff brake pedal with a few pumps.....and this pedal doesn't come up at all with pumping. I get a modicum of brake force at the very end of the pedal's travel.

I'll change the M/C and apply Liquid Wrench for another few weeks before trying to loosen the nipples.....I'll use a six-sided wrench and be careful....if they give me too much push-back, I'll quit before I twist 'em off (famous last words)...and report back. Thanks again!(y)
 
Reporting back. I soaked the bleeders in Liquid Wrench for two weeks (a spray every other day) and they opened just fine. BTW, a six-point wrench is an absolute necessity....12-pointers will round these quickly).

Started bleeding with the passenger side rear (left rear as you are facing the front of the car) and a ton of air was in there. Pedal firmness was restored after bleeding only that one. :confused: I did bleed the others but there was no air in there....just the one. Strange indeed....especially since the car had been sitting for a couple of months between when the brakes were OK and when they weren't.

Oh well, I'll have to save the MC replacement for another day (when I'm happy and in need of some rusty bolt frustration :bang:).

Thanks for the thoughts spannerdude; I appreciate the help!
 
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