Every now and then I stop at a light, the radio will shut off and the car will stall. It is difficult to start back up. It will crank fine and then sputter, almost as if choked. Then it will start and run fine. I ran an alternator check and it says it s fine. Electrical or Fuel problem? Any ideas what is wrong?? Please Help!!
Technical 79 Spider- radio shuts off then car stalls
- Thread starter phillykw
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Technical 79 Spider- radio shuts off then car stalls
mbouse
New member
lots of things can be wrong, with the little detail you have provided. what are the RPMs right before the engine dies?
by difficulty starting, do you mean slow cranking engine, or just not firing?
radio has nothing to do with it.
does the alternator light come on anytime other than at start up?
what RPM do you normally see at idle?
by difficulty starting, do you mean slow cranking engine, or just not firing?
radio has nothing to do with it.
does the alternator light come on anytime other than at start up?
what RPM do you normally see at idle?
RPMS @ 800.
Cranks fine and wants to run, but won't stay running almost as if choke is stuck.
The battery light glows very slightly under a load but alternator check comes back fine..
RPMS normally @ 800.
The only reason I mention the radio is that it goes off just before it stalls (leads me to think electrical) but the way it tries to start leads me to think fuel.
Thanks
Cranks fine and wants to run, but won't stay running almost as if choke is stuck.
The battery light glows very slightly under a load but alternator check comes back fine..
RPMS normally @ 800.
The only reason I mention the radio is that it goes off just before it stalls (leads me to think electrical) but the way it tries to start leads me to think fuel.
Thanks
mbouse
New member
if you have the stock carburetor in place, it has a frequently failing idle solenoid that is electrically operated.
silver cylinder on the left hand side of the carb, with a wire connected to it. if the wire is missing (wow... what a simple repair). if the wire is attached, check to be sure that the wire has 12 volts when the key is on. then....
test the cylinder:
1. ignition on, but engine NOT running.
2. pull wire from the solenoid
3. touch wire to the solenoid lead
4. repeat #2 & #3 several times
if you hear a clicking noise, the solenoid prolly is o.k.
if you do not hear a clicking noise, the solenoid prolly needs replacing
engine will not idle w/out the solenoid functioning properly. www.vickauto.com part # 31-0604 $32.95
silver cylinder on the left hand side of the carb, with a wire connected to it. if the wire is missing (wow... what a simple repair). if the wire is attached, check to be sure that the wire has 12 volts when the key is on. then....
test the cylinder:
1. ignition on, but engine NOT running.
2. pull wire from the solenoid
3. touch wire to the solenoid lead
4. repeat #2 & #3 several times
if you hear a clicking noise, the solenoid prolly is o.k.
if you do not hear a clicking noise, the solenoid prolly needs replacing
engine will not idle w/out the solenoid functioning properly. www.vickauto.com part # 31-0604 $32.95
The solenoid checked out ok. It is an intermittent problem. Seems as if first start its fine. After I shut it off and start it again and drive it is when the problem starts. Any other suggestions? I really appreciate your help with this. Is it best for me to contact you thru the forum or via email? My uncle bought this car new in 79 and he gave it me a few years ago.It has since taken a back seat to 3 little ones. Every now and then I take it out to shake it around a bit and its not too much fun to be stalling and hoping I am not going to have to be towed.
mbouse
New member
there are lots of folks that read and do not post, and your issues are not unique. if you can, we should try to resolve this via the forum for their sake.
gotta presume that this is a completely stock 1979, carbureted engine cuz you did not mention any modifications. therefore there are no fuel injected sensors that are malfunctioning. additionally, if the engine is not running and the ignition is turned on, the radio will play by itself for nearly ever.... right?
battery and charging system are not at issue, right? i mean, the alternator light isn't on, and the battery does not need recharging external to the car running.
there is a big white connector behind the ignition switch. remove the battery negative cable and take this white connector apart, clean and tighten every one of the connections. intermittant electrical connection is what i am hearing, and this connector is a common issue in these cars.
additionally, clean and tighten the wires at the coil. both the 12volt from the ignition switch and the ground wire on the other side. both ends of the ground wire!
radios were installed aftermarket, not at the factory. i cannot begin to tell you how many different wiring schemes were used, so the clue concerning the radio silence is more static noise than helpful clues at this point. if you knew how the radio was getting its power would be helpful.
then, how are you positive it is an electrical issue and not a fuel delivery issue? if it is a completely stock engine, i suspect the one way valve between the fuel pump and the carburetor may be plugged. do you have a flying saucer looking object about 2 1/2" in diameter in the fuel line in the engine bay? also, when was the last time the fuel filter was changed?
properly tuned, this engine should idle forever, and run very nicely on the road, reliably. Age has nothing to do with it, but intermittant use does.
gotta presume that this is a completely stock 1979, carbureted engine cuz you did not mention any modifications. therefore there are no fuel injected sensors that are malfunctioning. additionally, if the engine is not running and the ignition is turned on, the radio will play by itself for nearly ever.... right?
battery and charging system are not at issue, right? i mean, the alternator light isn't on, and the battery does not need recharging external to the car running.
there is a big white connector behind the ignition switch. remove the battery negative cable and take this white connector apart, clean and tighten every one of the connections. intermittant electrical connection is what i am hearing, and this connector is a common issue in these cars.
additionally, clean and tighten the wires at the coil. both the 12volt from the ignition switch and the ground wire on the other side. both ends of the ground wire!
radios were installed aftermarket, not at the factory. i cannot begin to tell you how many different wiring schemes were used, so the clue concerning the radio silence is more static noise than helpful clues at this point. if you knew how the radio was getting its power would be helpful.
then, how are you positive it is an electrical issue and not a fuel delivery issue? if it is a completely stock engine, i suspect the one way valve between the fuel pump and the carburetor may be plugged. do you have a flying saucer looking object about 2 1/2" in diameter in the fuel line in the engine bay? also, when was the last time the fuel filter was changed?
properly tuned, this engine should idle forever, and run very nicely on the road, reliably. Age has nothing to do with it, but intermittant use does.
Last edited:
I still need to check all the things in your last post.
Here are some answers to your questions:
I beleive it is a stock engine. The carb had that solenoid in the location you suggested.
The battery light glows very slightly with a load on and I do dissconnect the battery while the car sits because I beleive the clock drains it. I also put a battery charger on it over the winter months. I ran a load test with my battery charger and it says that my aternator is ok.
I guess it could be a fuel problem, butsince it is intermittent I thought it was electrical.
I'll get thru your other checklist and ge back to you.
thanks again
Here are some answers to your questions:
I beleive it is a stock engine. The carb had that solenoid in the location you suggested.
The battery light glows very slightly with a load on and I do dissconnect the battery while the car sits because I beleive the clock drains it. I also put a battery charger on it over the winter months. I ran a load test with my battery charger and it says that my aternator is ok.
I guess it could be a fuel problem, butsince it is intermittent I thought it was electrical.
I'll get thru your other checklist and ge back to you.
thanks again
mbouse
New member
intermittant issues are a pain to diagnose remotely.
suggest the alternator be taken to an alternator/starter rebuild shop and properly tested.... rebuilt if necessary. unless you are piling on a bunch of accessories, that light should not glow while idling at 800 rpm
suggest the alternator be taken to an alternator/starter rebuild shop and properly tested.... rebuilt if necessary. unless you are piling on a bunch of accessories, that light should not glow while idling at 800 rpm
Here is where it gets interesting.
I disconnected the white harness behind the ignition and found a little bit of burnt plastic.
Apparently there was a previous problem.
On the part of the harness not attached to the ignition the small pink wite is spliced to the blue with red wire causing the blue with red to burn.
If I remove the splice the the car cranks and will not turn over.
If I remove the splice while the car is running it shuts off.
Obviously the splice is not the correct fix.
What is the correct fix?
Do you think that this could be causing the other issues?
Are you a mechanic or is this a hobby? You know this car like the back of your hand.
Thanks in advance
I disconnected the white harness behind the ignition and found a little bit of burnt plastic.
Apparently there was a previous problem.
On the part of the harness not attached to the ignition the small pink wite is spliced to the blue with red wire causing the blue with red to burn.
If I remove the splice the the car cranks and will not turn over.
If I remove the splice while the car is running it shuts off.
Obviously the splice is not the correct fix.
What is the correct fix?
Do you think that this could be causing the other issues?
Are you a mechanic or is this a hobby? You know this car like the back of your hand.
Thanks in advance
mbouse
New member
sorry, but your explanation confused me a might. especially the part about the splicing. i hate previous owner's electrical hack jobs! they are very common, and usually don't fix the cause behind symptoms.
the pink wire at the ignition switch feeds the coil. if that wire is compromised, i am certain that you'll be having issues at the coil, and that would cause failure to spark. clean up this patch job if you can.
Do you have an electrical wiring diagram? try this:
http://www.artigue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Wiring_1979_1980.pdf
any burnt signs at that white connector spell overheating or sparking of those electrical connections. very common issue. pull that connector completely apart and thoroughly clean and tighten each terminal. replace any burnt wires and toasted terminals. be sure to wrap any bare wires with insulation.
you may find another two wire connector coming from the ignition switch as well. that has nothing to do with your issue. those are the "Left your keys in the ignition, dummy" wires for the door chime.
of course, not being there, i cannot be sure that your car has the original switch, or an aftermarket switch, or why the hack job exisits. where does the blue/red wire come from or go to? follow that wire as far as you can both ways.
disconnecting power to the pink wire (thus removing 12volt supply to the coil) will immediately cause the engine to stop running. follow the pink wire from the ignition switch into the wiring harnass. is it unbroken and without splices?
i recall you complaining about radio issues. i suspect that a previous owner has compromised a wiring circuit when he installed the radio.
all that to answer your first two questions.
Question #3..after you have owned and worked on your Fiat Spiders as long as i have worked on my two (plus various parts cars and friends' vehicles) i guess you could call me an experienced hobbiest. yup, i know my way around Fiat Spiders fairly well. and, i have maintained ALL of my other vehicles as much as humanly possible over my driving career. no, i am not a professional mechanic. very few professional mechanics would advise you to do anything yourself..that would be self-defeating for them.
send me a picture of your flying saucer to mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
before i tell you what to do with it, i wanna see it. i am trying to go for a process of elimination by making sure the fuel system is not the issue.
the pink wire at the ignition switch feeds the coil. if that wire is compromised, i am certain that you'll be having issues at the coil, and that would cause failure to spark. clean up this patch job if you can.
Do you have an electrical wiring diagram? try this:
http://www.artigue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Wiring_1979_1980.pdf
any burnt signs at that white connector spell overheating or sparking of those electrical connections. very common issue. pull that connector completely apart and thoroughly clean and tighten each terminal. replace any burnt wires and toasted terminals. be sure to wrap any bare wires with insulation.
you may find another two wire connector coming from the ignition switch as well. that has nothing to do with your issue. those are the "Left your keys in the ignition, dummy" wires for the door chime.
of course, not being there, i cannot be sure that your car has the original switch, or an aftermarket switch, or why the hack job exisits. where does the blue/red wire come from or go to? follow that wire as far as you can both ways.
disconnecting power to the pink wire (thus removing 12volt supply to the coil) will immediately cause the engine to stop running. follow the pink wire from the ignition switch into the wiring harnass. is it unbroken and without splices?
i recall you complaining about radio issues. i suspect that a previous owner has compromised a wiring circuit when he installed the radio.
all that to answer your first two questions.
Question #3..after you have owned and worked on your Fiat Spiders as long as i have worked on my two (plus various parts cars and friends' vehicles) i guess you could call me an experienced hobbiest. yup, i know my way around Fiat Spiders fairly well. and, i have maintained ALL of my other vehicles as much as humanly possible over my driving career. no, i am not a professional mechanic. very few professional mechanics would advise you to do anything yourself..that would be self-defeating for them.
send me a picture of your flying saucer to mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
before i tell you what to do with it, i wanna see it. i am trying to go for a process of elimination by making sure the fuel system is not the issue.
Hopefully this is the stalling problem otherwise I found an old problem.
I undid the splice and the car won't start or run.
According to the wiring diagram the blue/red is the wiper motor.
I was playing with the ignition and with the ignition on I am not getting steady power to the pink wire.
Do you think that the ignition is going and the previous splice was keeping steady power to the pink?
If the ignition is bad, I see the set screw behind it but what else needs to be done to remove it? Also a good place to buy one? If you don't think its the ignition what do you think?
I'll get you a pic of the flying saucer tomorrow,.
Thank you.
I undid the splice and the car won't start or run.
According to the wiring diagram the blue/red is the wiper motor.
I was playing with the ignition and with the ignition on I am not getting steady power to the pink wire.
Do you think that the ignition is going and the previous splice was keeping steady power to the pink?
If the ignition is bad, I see the set screw behind it but what else needs to be done to remove it? Also a good place to buy one? If you don't think its the ignition what do you think?
I'll get you a pic of the flying saucer tomorrow,.
Thank you.
mbouse
New member
the wiper motor and the coil should not be on the same electrical circuit. the wiper motor should be fused and on the same circuit as the heater blower motor and (i think, from memory) the rad fan.
if your wiper motor is hooked up to the ignition coil feed wire.... you have a bunch of electrical issues to contend with. I won't be too much help via internet or email. being there is the best thing. i can stress to follow all of the suspect wires in that splice from beginning to end. additionally, put things back they way they belong.
what color wire is at the coil? pink or blue/red?? or something else?
are you in the Philadelphia area? more importantly, are you a FIAT LANCIA UNLIMITED member? i might be able to put you in contact with some Spider friends in that area...
do you want aftermarket NEW or OEM used ignition switch?
www.international-auto.com
or send me an email at:
mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
if your wiper motor is hooked up to the ignition coil feed wire.... you have a bunch of electrical issues to contend with. I won't be too much help via internet or email. being there is the best thing. i can stress to follow all of the suspect wires in that splice from beginning to end. additionally, put things back they way they belong.
what color wire is at the coil? pink or blue/red?? or something else?
are you in the Philadelphia area? more importantly, are you a FIAT LANCIA UNLIMITED member? i might be able to put you in contact with some Spider friends in that area...
do you want aftermarket NEW or OEM used ignition switch?
www.international-auto.com
or send me an email at:
mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
The coil has a pink wire on the top terminal on one side and a brown with white on the other. I will send you a pic of the coil and the space ship.
Is it possible that the ignition switch is bad and someones remedy was to put power to the coil via the accesory lead?Or do you think I am heading in the wrong direction?
I am in the Philadelphia area but am not a Fiat Lancia Unlimited member. What is that?
thanks again
Is it possible that the ignition switch is bad and someones remedy was to put power to the coil via the accesory lead?Or do you think I am heading in the wrong direction?
I am in the Philadelphia area but am not a Fiat Lancia Unlimited member. What is that?
thanks again
mbouse
New member
there is no accessory circuit on this ignition switch. off-run-start are the only options.
FIAT LANCIA UNLIMITED (FLU) is North America's largest and fastest growing Fiat and Lancia enthusiest club. we boast an average of 600 active members, primarily from USA and Canada, but have members in the UK, Costa Rica and Puerto Rico. in addition to our own website at www.flu.org we have our own forum (open to the public) http://fluforum.italiancarclub.com/
we meet nationally at a rotating series of places, last time was in Valley Forge, next year in Biltmore NC. in addition to the web forum, we have a bi-monthly magazine RICAMBI that is mailed to all members. many of our members are in daily contact with each other through the forum and via email.
last i counted we also have 24 regional chapters scattered throughout North America, which host events, cruises and meetings and do a high quality job of supporting their members. what i am attempting to do with you in this post, would have been handled in a matter of hours .. in your garage .. by a chapter member. You should reach out to the Delaware Valley Chapter representative, Shaun Folkerts at:
fiatlancia2 AT yahoo DOT com
Mike Bouse
Membership Director
Fiat Lancia Unlimited
[email protected]
FIAT LANCIA UNLIMITED (FLU) is North America's largest and fastest growing Fiat and Lancia enthusiest club. we boast an average of 600 active members, primarily from USA and Canada, but have members in the UK, Costa Rica and Puerto Rico. in addition to our own website at www.flu.org we have our own forum (open to the public) http://fluforum.italiancarclub.com/
we meet nationally at a rotating series of places, last time was in Valley Forge, next year in Biltmore NC. in addition to the web forum, we have a bi-monthly magazine RICAMBI that is mailed to all members. many of our members are in daily contact with each other through the forum and via email.
last i counted we also have 24 regional chapters scattered throughout North America, which host events, cruises and meetings and do a high quality job of supporting their members. what i am attempting to do with you in this post, would have been handled in a matter of hours .. in your garage .. by a chapter member. You should reach out to the Delaware Valley Chapter representative, Shaun Folkerts at:
fiatlancia2 AT yahoo DOT com
Mike Bouse
Membership Director
Fiat Lancia Unlimited
[email protected]
