General weight??

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General weight??

KHALooD

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guys i want to know the weight of Uno 45 stock alloys???
strange Q but plz i need answer..
 
sorry but my english is not very good, i mean the wheels whatever they r,,
i'm asking cause i'm going to get 14" rims and i want to know the diff. in weight...
 
Not much lighter, because alloys tend to be larger (beacuse we want the car to look better). Bigger radius (from 13" to 14") and width increases metal wheight (I know steel is heavier than aluminum, but still). Wider tyres also wheighs more than stock 13" 145/155 tyres, so I'd say the same wheight...

My stock 13" iron wheel with 155 tyre wheighs the same as my 14" abarth alloy with 165 tyre. But the alloy is 2" wider than the stock wheel. Keep in mind that tyres wheighs quite a bit... in addition to the alloy.

Morten.
 
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thx for ur reply, u know it's all about weight when u talk about 999cc a kilo would make difference..
 
KHALooD.

Yeah, I know... My 1.1 (I've got more than you!) has vast improvments in steep uphill when low on gas without luggage and passengers. There is actually a big difference with/without one extra person... so I know what you're talking about. You can see my tyres / alloys in my photo album. It doesn't look bad at all with 165/60R14 GoodYear tyres on Ritmo (Strada) Abarth 14" alloys. So no need for 195/205 which will add even more wheight. The Uno has little wheight itself, so the need for huge tyres (or is it spelled tires???) isn't needed to stop the car.

So little physics. The area of the tyre (tire??? I don't remember...) will not be bigger due to bigger tyres. The surface facing the asphalt will just get more and more rectangular than sqaure the wider the tyre is - if you get it... The car will not have any big brake improvements if you go for wider tyres... it will just loose traction, get water planning (not if you get GoodYear water tyres as I did - I'm still impressed), and become harder to turn at low or no speed...

Do not get cheap tyres because they are cheap. They are cheap for a reason, and you always get what you pay for. Good tyres stop the car in an emergency. Bad (read cheap) tyres don't...

Drive enthusiastic (you've got a a Fiat), and have a nice weekend.

Morten.
 
Well put Morten.

Too many people think that fitting wide tyres will automatically improve grip, but it isn't always the case. It's also down to the amount of weight over a given area. So wide tyres will have less weight over the tyre 'foot print' than a skinny tyre. Think of it like the difference between the heel of a stileto shoe compared with the heel of a mans shoe. Which one exerts more downwards force? Which one would you prefer to have stand on you (unless you're a pervert!)?

Exactly! The stileto heel will exert more downwards force Which is why some skinny tyres can actually grip MORE than a wide tyre. A Citroen 2CV is a good example.

Also needing to be taken into account is the weight of a car. The lighter the car, the less the advantage of fitting wide tyres as the downwards force is less. Remember that the original Uno turbo tyres were only 175, so really anything more than 195 is a waste of time.

In the wet a wide tyre versus a skinny tyre can mean the difference between the tyre gripping or aquaplaning...

And yes, both 'tyre' and 'tire' are correct spellings. The difference being is that 'tyre' is UK English, whereas 'tire' is American English. And yes, 'tyres' or 'tires' is the correct spelling for the plural. So really you're right on both counts.

Then again Morten, your English writing puts a lot of English people to shame. I'm begining to think they teach better English in Norway compared with the standards of English in the UK these days.

Look at Ebay listings to realise just how bad written English has become in the UK (n)
 
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hmm.... Morten i dont know if i totally agree with you on the cheap tyres, i recently changed mine from Pirelli tyres to cheap Tigra budget tyres, i did notice alot less grip on corners and my friends always tell me it feels like the back end is slipping out, i cant actually feel it but i feel bad understeer and can feel like the tyres colapse in the wet on roundabouts.

BUT, the other day when i was in a rear ender the 106 behind me was not able to stop with Pirelli tyres on and i was with only my Tigra tyres....

i think budget tyres will do in an emergency but if your out for racing or hardcore driving you will need some good tyres.

Cheers,
Ryan Edge
 
they r 5 spikes O.Z rims with 195 contental or michlene didn't decided yet
mine are perelli they are good but i heared michlene is better!!
 
Tyres

bulldog5046 said:
BUT, the other day when i was in a rear ender the 106 behind me was not able to stop with Pirelli tyres on and i was with only my Tigra tyres....

i think budget tyres will do in an emergency but if your out for racing or hardcore driving you will need some good tyres.

Cheers,
Ryan Edge

I think there are too many other factors involved with the 106 running into you... sorry that you were involved, sucks to hear of damage inflicted on our members :(

All other things being equal, the Pirelli tyres would probably have gripped better, but the reaction time of the driver/sharpness of brake application/weight of the 106/tread depth are all variables so I think the comparison is risky. Also, I've been told that old tyres become hard, so that makes good-quality old tyres perform like new budget tyres anyway.

So, new vs. budget, I think we all agree. I have been able to tell a difference in the past when I've put on branded tyres (I like Barum tyres myself.)

I'm getting nervous now thinking about my 195/45s going onto my Turbo. Chas and Morten accounts are both consistent with what I've read before. Maybe I should lower my tyre pressures to ensure a reasonable length contact patch? Yet, why do manufacturers tend to specify *higher* pressures for the wider tyres? (check your Uno handbook) and everyone pumps tyres up to the max (e.g. 40psi) when they go racing, for maximum grip. I have to admit that I'm still a bit confused as to what works best.

Also, I think that there is a 'feel' issue involved as well. Narrow 135 tyres on the Uno may work well (no dangerous aquaplaning) but it feels like driving on ice skates compared with the stability of my Alfa's 205/60s. And as Chas knows, there is a limit to the cornering grip as the rather high profile deforms.

Yet, someone told me recently that my 15" tyres wouldn't grip as well as 13"s would on my Uno Turbo. And, to back this up, at a recent race meeting I did the timing for, I just happened to note that the fastest Unos were running on 13"s. Plus of course, Formula 1 cars don't use low-profile tyres (do you think they could afford them?) It's all very worrying. Maybe I should have started another thread :eek:

Thanks,
-Alex
 
Re: Tyres

alexGS said:
So, new vs. budget, I think we all agree. I have been able to tell a difference in the past when I've put on branded tyres (I like Barum tyres myself.)

Problem here is there are budget tyres, and then there are cheap tyres (if you get my drift).

For normal day to day driving, most reputable budget brands are quite sufficient. It's when you go to the really cheap tyres (often made in China) that it starts getting a bit iffy. Then again, the Chinese are moving upwards in leaps and bounds, so even some of the 'Cheng Shin' stuff is actually ok! Not like many years ago when I fitted a Cheng Shin tyre onto my motorbike and it didn't seem to grip at all...

Even remoulds are better than they used to be. It's very much a question of finding a budget tyre that is good.

For more performance orientated cars, reputable brands are preferred because the car will push the tyre much harder than a non performance version.

alexGS said:
I'm getting nervous now thinking about my 195/45s going onto my Turbo. Chas and Morten accounts are both consistent with what I've read before.

195's should be ok - they aren't a great increase over the original 175's. However, the very low profile might cause a problem.

alexGS said:
Maybe I should lower my tyre pressures to ensure a reasonable length contact patch?

Not recommended. Always stick to the pressures recommended for the tyre and wheel combination. Going outside of these will cause excessive wear over the tyre depending on whether it is over or under inflated.

alexGS said:
Yet, why do manufacturers tend to specify *higher* pressures for the wider tyres? (check your Uno handbook) and everyone pumps tyres up to the max (e.g. 40psi) when they go racing, for maximum grip. I have to admit that I'm still a bit confused as to what works best.

Wider tyres tend to be lower profile. That means the side walls are reduced, and there is less compliancy compared with a higher profile. It's kind of the same philosphy with suspension spring lowering. If you reduce height, then you have to make the spring harder to compensate for the lack of travel. The same kind of applies to tyre walls. The lower the profile, the stronger the side walls have to be so they tend to need higher pressures. They don't cushion as well as higher profiles.

With racing, higher pressures are used to stop the tyre flexing under hard cornering, not for increased grip! Higher pressures make the tyre more rigid, so less likely to distort and therefore be more stable when cornering.

Drag racing on the other hand will often lower the pressures for more grip. You don't see a drag car with low profiles! Then again, they ARE only going in a straight line :p

alexGS said:
Also, I think that there is a 'feel' issue involved as well. Narrow 135 tyres on the Uno may work well (no dangerous aquaplaning) but it feels like driving on ice skates compared with the stability of my Alfa's 205/60s. And as Chas knows, there is a limit to the cornering grip as the rather high profile deforms.

I think the grip problem on my Uno is down to crap tyres rather than the profiles to be honest!

And don't forget that your Alfa is a bigger and heavier car, so can cope better than a Uno with wider tyres.

alexGS said:
Yet, someone told me recently that my 15" tyres wouldn't grip as well as 13"s would on my Uno Turbo. And, to back this up, at a recent race meeting I did the timing for, I just happened to note that the fastest Unos were running on 13"s. Plus of course, Formula 1 cars don't use low-profile tyres (do you think they could afford them?) It's all very worrying. Maybe I should have started another thread :eek:

There are many variables that need to be taken into account. One is of course the weight of the vehicle. The lighter the car, the less benefit low profiles will have. As the Uno is a light car, fitting ultra low profiles is probably making the tyres too stiff to work effectively with the suspension and the overall weight of the car. This might explain why Uno's running on 13's ended up being quicker than those on bigger wheels/ lower profiles.

As to F1 cars, they are VERY light plus have hardly any suspension travel. The tyres are used as shock absorbers as much as they are for gripping. Ultra low profile tyres would probably bounce an F1 car all over the place, rather than higher profiles that would soak up the bumps and still allow the tyre to stay in contact with the track.

There is a LOT involved in deciding what tyre/ width/ profile combination is best for a particular car. I only know the basics, but there are scientic formulas for working it out properly that I have to confess are way beyond me.

But the problem these days is that people want to fit big wheels more for looks than anything else. 13" wheels are still the best size for some cars that originally came with them, though going up to 14" shouldn't be too much of a problem. Going 2" or more oversize with much lower profile tyres is likely to cause problems unless the suspension is also modified to suit.

The one good thing for me sticking with 13" wheels (both steels and alloys) is that as everyone wants to upsize, second hand 13" wheels and also new 13" tyres are dirt cheap! And they work really well on a Uno. :D

The secret is out :p

Chas
 
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