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Old 23-06-2009   #1
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94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Good day folks.

As you can see I am brand new here although I have read many threads pertaining to previous trouble I had with my little Uno and honestly appreciate all the efforts of the community to help each other and help total strangers.

I have a 1994 Uno 1100 Fire ( the License model apparently assembled here in South Africa by Nissan). I suspect the engine is the 1108cc version.

My little Uno has had many troubles but I usually sort them out quit fast, but this time it has me stumped and my funds are running low due to experiments to find the fault.

In summary here is a list of events that lead to my Uno not wanting to start.

Initially I noticed the idling would become erratic, sometimes revving a little faster than normal for a few minutes and then coming back down to “normal”.

Then came the new problem of intermittently cutting out at stop streets or while driving if I did not get into gear fast enough to start accelerating again.

Sometimes, when I would park for a while and try to restart it, it would only crank the engine without starting...after a while (perhaps a few minutes) I would try again and it would fire, only to idle for about 90 seconds and then cut out again. It would idle as normal, and then quickly loose speed and just die.

At this stage, I checked for loose HT cables and the distributor cap. Found the 4 contact points inside the cap to be almost 100% worn away so I replaced it with a new one, and replaced the little rotator as well just for good luck.

This did not solve the above mentioned symptoms. I used the car one more time to town and back and after parking it in the yard I can not get it to start anymore.

When I turn the ignition key, it will crank the engine at “regular” speed for about 4 times and then would follow a “difficult” crank as if it is battling to turn the engine. Like in the olden days when you had to start those old Lister water pump engines with by turning it by hand...or when the battery is flat etc.

A auto electrician gave me a second hand ECU Module to test out and it did the same. He could not say for sure if that particular module was actually in working order, so I went further and bought a brand new one and still the engine swings 3 or so times fast followed by some difficult swings. About a year ago, the engine would also not start and just cranked without starting, I replaced the ECU Module and it took instantly thereafter until now. I kept that old broken one all this time (who knows why), and even tried that one as well. When that one is installed, the engine swings continuously normal without the sluggish difficult cranks, but does not fire up as it did back then.

I also set and replaced all 4 plugs, still no joy.

I did not fiddle with the timing or carb or anything, it kind of went like this all on its own.

Please, if there is anybody out there who could point me in the right direction with this one, I would sincerely be in great debt to you.

Warm regards,
Digital_Nomad
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Old 23-06-2009   #2
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Re: Spark Plug Order

Hi there, sorry me again.

I just need to confirm something else as well. In my Haynes manual it says the firing order of the plugs are 1-3-4-2 with number one at the timing belt end (my left hand side when standing in front of the car).

My question is, is this how the cylinders are mapped out in the engine i.e. the first plug on my left is for cylinder 1 and the second plug from my left is for cylinder 3 and the third plug from my left is for cylinder 4 and the last or fourth plug from my left is for cylinder 2 ?

Does this then mean that the HT lead marked as 3 on the distributor cap should be connected to the second plug from my left and the one marked 4 on the cap should be connected to the third plug from my left?

Or alternatively are the plugs on the engine just in normal numerical order i.e. 1-2-3-4 and the HT leads from the cap should be connected using the 1-2-3-4 mapping of the plugs?
Hope this makes sense, it really twists my mind sometimes.

Warm regards and thanks in advance.

Digital_Nomad
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Old 23-06-2009   #3
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Vacuum advance regulator at distributor may be a reason for erratic idle and cutting out.

By ECU module do you mean this? This part - ignition module could be a reason for engine not wanting to start when hot. When it fails completly it wont start cold either. Other cause for not starting could be a fuel pump.
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Last edited by Uno driver; 23-06-2009 at 15:54.
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Old 24-06-2009   #4
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Thanks Uno_Driver for trying to help me out. Yes it is definitely the ignition module in your picture, I bought a new one as well that looks the same.

You do not perhaps have photo of one of them with the wires connected to them just so I can be sure the wires were put back the right way round. When I loosen the two screws that holds it and turn it around, the there are 6 wires going into it. The earth wire shares a terminal with another green wire...in total 5 terminals on the module then... they plug in by means of two separate flat little plastic "plugs", the one plug takes up the first three terminals and the second plug fits in next to it taking up the final two terminals...

I think it would be easy to have accidently swapped them around etc. in haste and if I could just get a colour pic of one that is connected up correctly I could compare it and know for sure.

The strange thing though is that the first few turns of the engines sound normal, but then the following turns sounds like it has difficulty swinging the engine. Anydo, I will follow up that Vacuum advance regulator tip of yours this morning.

Thanks
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Last edited by DigitalNomad; 24-06-2009 at 06:16.
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Old 24-06-2009   #5
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Do you hear fuel pump for a few secondes when you turn the key? Have you checked fuses? Two of them are under black cover next to ignition coil (one is for fuel pump and lambda sensor, other one is for injection system). But first you must make sure what is missing, fuel or spark. You can check for spark with old spark plug, screw or something similar.

No, I don't have any photo but I don't think it's possible to connect connectors wrong way. Red wire (B+) in 3-pin connector should be in the middle of module, but I don't know about 2-pin connector.

Car should start with bad vacuum advance, but it will run rough and at lower rpm.

If you are sure you have spark and fuel, try cranking for ~5 seconds with gas pedal pressed as far as it goes. It happened to me once that fuel injector didn't close fully when it turned engine off and flooded engine over night by remaining pressurised fuel in fuel line.
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Old 30-06-2009   #6
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Hi all,

Took it in to a mechanic, they messed with it for 3 days and mumbled something about oil in the distributor. Apparently took it apart, cleaned it and replaced some o-ring etc...now starting, also idling ok-ish.

In the process they managed to mess up my starter motor and had to overall the thing as well...service really sucks in these parts of the world.

From some other posts here on the forum and from what people have been telling me, on the little FIRE like mine, keeping an eye on those oil seals for the distributor can save a fortune...there was oil just about to enter the unplugged timing inspection hole. Now going to try and find a replacement plug also just to be on the safe side.

Warm regards,
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Last edited by DigitalNomad; 30-06-2009 at 08:27.
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Old 01-07-2009   #7
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Timing inspection hole?
Do you mean the rectangular hole on the gearbox?
Isnt that where the gearbox oil goes?

I need to sort my O ring out too, soon
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Old 01-07-2009   #8
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Quote Originally Posted by Ucof View Post
Timing inspection hole?
Do you mean the rectangular hole on the gearbox?
Isnt that where the gearbox oil goes?

I need to sort my O ring out too, soon
I hope you are joking

If you get any oil in there (on clutch plate) you will need to replace clutch as it will be slipping.
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Old 01-07-2009   #9
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Oh..
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Old 01-07-2009   #10
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Quote Originally Posted by Ucof View Post
Isnt that where the gearbox oil goes?
new sig anyone?

the later gearbox on the fire engines seems to have it in a different place to the early ones, so the oil don't run in so easily. it's acutely on the bell housing

I got a new bung a bit back to be on the safe side.
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Old 02-07-2009   #11
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Oh right..
whoops!

I did wonder why it was leaking out the bottom
Haven't noticed it slipping yet, however, it did temporarily solve my stiff gearstick problem so assumed it was the right place!


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Old 02-07-2009   #12
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Hi, fellows.

I experience the same problems and can't resolve them yet.
Ignition system works – I see sparks within testing plug, throttle sensor and actuator work properly - throttle plate is adjusted automatically when ignition key is turned on, fuel pump works.
I have watched CFI during "dieing". The distinct pots pattern is observed on throttle plate immediately after starting, but suddenly fuel mixture becomes lean, and engine stops.
All of that looks like ECU turns off CFI for any reasons.
Do you have any idea?
By the way, does Bosch Mono Jetronic include engine speed sensor? If yes, where is it placed on 1108?
Mike
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Old 02-07-2009   #13
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

There is only a sensor in distributor that is connected to ignition module. ECU then takes speed signal from ignition coil.

Check resistance of blue water temperature sensor (i think it's around 1kohm when cold and 200ohm hot, but I'm not sure) and air temp sensor (same connector as injector).

Last edited by Uno driver; 02-07-2009 at 19:58.
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Old 04-07-2009   #14
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Quote Originally Posted by Uno driver View Post
There is only a sensor in distributor that is connected to ignition module. ECU then takes speed signal from ignition coil.
Thanks, Uno_driver, I suspected that but wasn't sure. If so:
- the first, there must be direct connection betweeen ignition module and ECU, i.e. one of the five ignition module contacts has to be used as speed signal terminal. But I don't see which of them may play the role. Would you please to explain this wiring question?
- the second, ignition sparks isn't evidence of ingnition module good condition: it may send impuls to coil but not send impuls to ECU. Is that correct?

Quote Originally Posted by Uno driver View Post
Check resistance of blue water temperature sensor (i think it's around 1kohm when cold and 200ohm hot, but I'm not sure) and air temp sensor (same connector as injector).
All other sensors has been checked and were found to be in accordance with manual data.

Regards
Mike
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Last edited by mikesl; 04-07-2009 at 21:33.
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Old 05-07-2009   #15
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Re: 94 Uno Fire 1100 Starting Troubles

Signal to ECU is taken directly from wire that goes from ignition module to coil. There are four wires at coil connector. When connector is plugged in, two wires at each side become shorted. So you have +12V at one side and signal from ignition module at the other, which also goes to ECU.

When I was fitting fuel injection in uno with carb I took signal for ECU directly from coil (orange wire IIRC). I used same wire for rev counter.

So if you have spark, you also have speed signal to ECU.

Last edited by Uno driver; 05-07-2009 at 12:22.
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