Hi folks - the rear right hand side wheel (the one the opposite side of the driver in a LHD - never got my head around near and offside - sorry) is seized solid! just drags along the ground when I try to drive off in forward or reverse - I've removed the wheel and cannot turn the drum at all - I'm in darkest Bulgaria with the "local" garage a mere 25 Km away so need to try to sort this myself.

I've tried hitting the drum with a hammer (buffered with a piece of wood) but to no avail - it is f.cold here at the moment so it is possible that the handbrake is frozen - we've also had a really rainy spell so it might be rusted! - not sure what to do about that except perhaps hold off till spring?

Does anyone know if there is an access hole in the back plate that will enable me to jack off the pads?

If the jacking off of the pads does not do the trick - does anyone else have any suggestions? - I've seen articles on the web suggesting angle grinding the drum off but that really does seem a trifle drastic to me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks in advance.

Mike

You've obviously tried rocking it forward and back again on the clutch/gearbox?

Many thanks for getting back to me!

Yeah tried rocking back on clutch but no luck - I even tried removing the wheel and replacing a couple of wheel studs on opposite sides of the drum with a long metal 1/2 inch bar between them resting on a large block of wood and then gently lowering the trolley jack - just bent the bar!

Thinking of going out there this morning and trying a blow torch on the hub - temperature here is still in the negative figures so it's highly unlikely if it is frozen that it will have freed itself.

/Mike

bgbound said:

Thinking of going out there this morning and trying a blow torch on the hub - temperature here is still in the negative figures so it's highly unlikely if it is frozen that it will have freed itself.

/Mike

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Do this and drive to a car wash or underground garage

Many thanks for the reply!

Actually - I'd been laying in bed this morning thinking about something along those lines (now how sad is that?) perhaps something similar but with a big trolley wheel attached - perhaps with a pile of bricks in the driver's seat to keep the weight off of that corner of the car!

Seriously - worked all day on the beast - didn't find any access hole in the rear plate to jack the shoes back off - think I've eliminated the handbrake - although it didn't feel quite right - I think that was perhaps effect rather than cause - came to this conclusion after dismantling the handbrake cable progressively from the front till I could detach the cable to the offending wheel and then found it seemed to slide in the outer sheath OK - still we live and learn - well some folks do - I don't seem to do either lately!

The drum really does seem to be stuck fast - removed the bearing cover and all seems to look nice and fresh in there so I'm loath to go dismantling that at the moment - especially after my outstanding success with the handbrake cable investigation! I'm thinking that perhaps the shoes have de-laminated or there is something similar happening inside the brake drum so I think that it will have to come off by hook or by crook!

Welting with hammers seems to have moved the drum about 1/8th of an inch - tried to find someone in the village with a rim puller but no luck - but I have seen some interesting homemade jobs on the internet - think I may slip into Heath Robinson mode tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

/Mike

Hi,
if you look where the 2 x "spikes" bolt through the brake drum -then into the HUB,
there is a thread in the outer holes ( on drum),

this IS the best method for jacking off the drum ( I use it all the time)

BUT they are a weird thread ( M12 x 1.25..??) made mine years ago..,

otherwise try drowning the hub in antifreeze spray ( de- icer..)

as that has worked o.k. before,
Charlie

bgbound said:

Welting with hammers seems to have moved the drum about 1/8th of an inch
/Mike

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You may have the additional complication that the drum is worn larger than the part nearest the centre of the car so there is a lip here that will create more binding as the drum comes off. I can tell you that i specialise in doing things the hard way but i think you need to order another drum and while you are waiting figure out how to cut the drum off without damaging more parts.

Hi there Charlie & Judderbar and many thanks for your feedback.

Well Charlie- the threaded jacking off points was a straw that I too was clutching at but there is only 1 spike but no jacking off threaded holes.

I'm pretty certain that the problem is not ice - it's warmed up nicely here today and the offending wheel catches a fair bit of sun and the wheel is off - besides with all the beating it's been taking I would by now expect to see something like a grey slush puppy under the wheel! - Spraying with antifreeze - would the plan there be to defrost or is to provide lubrication? I did find one article where someone had used WD40 and was told he had probably made matters worse as the WD40 would soak into the pads making them expand - that siad - I had a Bulgarian friend helping yesterday who insisted that I pour some water in there - I'm guessing that this is for lubrication - now my Bulgarian is not up to a standard where I could argue the point with him so I gave in.

Yes Judderbar - I was anticipating the lip making life just that little bit more difficult! - Managed to locate some pullers in the local town today but the only one that looked anywhere near man enough for the job and large enough was an arm and a leg and we were not sure the diameter of the hub so came home to have a re-think - saw an interesting setup on the web using a hydraulic bottle jack - some chain and a couple of hooks - think I can get something like that knocked up in the village for less than a small arm so will have a look at that tomorrow!

Once again very many thanks for the feedback - it really is appreciated! A problem shared and all that!

/Mike

only the one spikehole.. and NO threads..sounds like it's more PSA than FIAT..?,

no search on 806+ Synergie sites..??,

Charlie

Maybe the brake cable is frozen, Can you get any movement out of the lever the cable goes onto? These units do seize, maybe back off the handbrake cable fully and then try it (from the adjuster)

Hi Digger

I've disconnected the handbrake cable that goes to the affected wheel - can't find a way to do this behind the wheel drum it seems to go through a rubber grommet on the back plate so maybe the lever it actuates is located inside? I disconnected the cable from where it divides to go to the other rear wheel and there does seem to be movement in the cable so I'm thinking that the handbrake cable is not frozen although it maybe that the mechanism inside the drum is seized - however - if that is the case I am rather surprised at just how solidly locked the drum seems to be - normally you could drive away with the handbrake on and certainly my 1/2 inch iron bar wedged between two wheel studs and then having the weight of that corner of the car applied to the end of the bar by lowering the trolley jack should have turned the drum!

So now I'm thinking of getting some angle iron welded up and using a hydraulic bottle jack to drag the beast off!

Does anyone know if the slave cylinder is bolted to the back plate or is it floating? been a long time since I've done any of this stuff! Guess I could take the other rear drum off for some pointers but I just have a feeling that - that way lies madness! - I'm keen to not do any damage to the back plate - I think everything else is expendable?

Once again Many thanks for the feedback!

/Mike

bgbound said:

Does anyone know if the slave cylinder is bolted to the back plate or is it floating? been a long time since I've done any of this stuff! Guess I could take the other rear drum off for some pointers but I just have a feeling that - that way lies madness! - I'm keen to not do any damage to the back plate - I think everything else is expendable?

Once again Many thanks for the feedback!

/Mike

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Since you are about to use huge force to try and pull the drum off on the bad side it makes sense to spent half an hour taking the other one off with no force at all to see what can be broken as you pull off the bad side.

(When i tried to inspect my drums i did not realise the spikes were acting as retaining screws for the drum. I spent about 20 minutes tapping away then hammering and levering and more hammering and levering before I sat back and asked myself if they were held by the spikes! )

varesecrazy said:

only the one spikehole.. and NO threads..sounds like it's more PSA than FIAT..?,

no search on 806+ Synergie sites..??,

Charlie

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Yes Charlie only 1 spike hole that I can find! That is I'm assuming you mean the spike that I have shown in place between the top left two wheel stud holes - and removed in the other photo.

Tell me what does " PSA "stand for? the car was an import to Bulgaria from Austria - no idea of it's history prior to that!

Good idea 806 & Synergie - I'll have a look and see If I can find anything on there.

Regards

/Mike

Hi Judderbar

Yes I take your point - it's just that I was anticipating hitting the "ridged drum surface" problem on that side too - probably more that a 20 minute job too - given that side of the car is jammed against the kerb and the other side on blocks but that said I think you are right - provided the drum comes off OK that side it's worth going that way to get an idea of what I am going to encounter - when I eventually get the broken side fixed I will have to visit the other side anyway as that is likely to be heading in the same direction.

/Mike

If yours looks like this Ulysse and you can find the position of the adjuster you might be able to drill a hole in the drum to slacken the adjuster??

https://www.fiatforum.com/ulysse/33...keeps-locking-when-driving-too.html?p=3381482

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pagid-Rea...938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d245b2192

bgbound said:

Yes Charlie only 1 spike hole that I can find! That is I'm assuming you mean the spike that I have shown in place between the top left two wheel stud holes - and removed in the other photo.

Tell me what does " PSA "stand for? the car was an import to Bulgaria from Austria - no idea of it's history prior to that!

Good idea 806 & Synergie - I'll have a look and see If I can find anything on there.

Regards

/Mike

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Hi Mike,
PSA are the parent company, who build FIAT, Peugeot, and Citroen, People carriers and vans

search SEVEL on here

ok, having FIVE wheel studs almost explains it..,
99% of my FIAT experience is with the 4-stud passenger cars

to be perfectly frank here..,
remove the hub from the other side's rear wheel, IF it's worn in diameter so there is a pronounced "lip" then this side is most likely the same..,

attempt to measure the actual polished breaking surface, there should be a MAX. diameter cast into the drum for reference..,
if you are within 1 or 2 mm of this MAX. figure, you may as well get a new pair of drums..,
IF you are buying new drums.. then using a grinder to get this one off will be the best way..,
and less risk to the inner components.. ( YES- you'll be replacing the shoes also.. but don't want to twist the back plate and self adjusters out of shape)


Charlie

Many thanks for that Judderbar - I'd actually received the same from WelshWizard - I'd had spotted his thread before I started this one but didn't identify it as the same problem since his was locking up whilst driving but it does with hindsight look like the same problem - I've also followed Varescrazy's advice and checked out the 806 forums and found someone with exactly the same problem although they don't mention how they managed to get the drum off.

I have found posts from across the pond where they suggest driving around with the wheelnuts half undone across railroad tracks or do "do-nuts" against the kerb - makes my efforts seem relatively restrained so far!

Hi again folks!

Well today my day was well and truly hijacked!

Today was meant to be spent in the kitchen (we run a small B&B here and have guests arriving tomorrow) - however when returning home after walking the dogs a Bulgarian friend turned up to help with the car - he'd been told of my problem by another friend who had been helping the other day!

Well it would have been churlish to refuse so I had to buckle down with him - he seemed certain that the wheel bearing nut had to come off but I eventually persuaded him that was not the case - unfortunately not till after I'd turned my back and he'd tried to beat it undone with a hammer and cold chisel!

We tried heating the drum with a propane torch and welting with bigger and bigger hammers and got nowhere - eventually we bit the bullet took hold of an angle grinder and cut the beast off - didn't take anywhere near as long as I thought it would.

So the bottom line is that the shoes had indeed de-laminated! Not seen brake shoes in a lot of years (and never seen them naked!) but I do seem to recall that the linings used to be riveted on? - Indeed I seem to recall that you used to be able to buy the linings to rivet on - or is my mind playing tricks on me? Can't see any sign of rivets on these - and certainly no hole in the back plate to access the auto adjust mechanism!

So it's off to town tomorrow to get new brake shoes and a brake drum! Will get shoes to do the other wheel whilst I am about it!

Once again many many thanks for all your help and support!

Regards

/Mike

glue that bonds the friction material gets "lifted" by corrocion,,
common on seldom-used vehicles.., of in harsh ( damp) environment..,
Charlie

I have been wondering if it's because the local dogs do seem to have a preference for that wheel as a comfort break spot!